Electrics: 164: Starter Motor

[Harvey1963]

I'm baffled so need some advice.

Owned my 1969 164 for six months. Car has always started first time every time with a strong starter motor with no apparent issues.

Today took the car out for a short drive. Car started first time as usual and drove for 6 miles without incident. Mid journey home I stopped at a supermarket. A few minutes later I went to restart and the starter/solenoid was totally unresponsive / dead.

The battery is good and everything else is working as it should. I bump started the car and returned home. On turning off and trying to restart, again there is absolutely nothing coming from the starter, not even a solenoid click. I've checked the voltage between the power lead at the starter and the earth of the starter body and I am getting voltage all the time even without the ignition on.

I'm not too sure of the electrical workings and don't understand what tells the solenoid to activate. Anyway whatever is wrong, the starter is completely inoperative.

I need help before I incur the expense of my local classic specialist.

[Billy Smalls]

From how you've described it, I had the same thing happen to. However, mine is a B20 engine in a 144 so may not relate.

Mine happened in midwinter, so I put it down to the cold affecting the solenoid. In the end the problem went away, and being summer that theory may not makes sense either (sorry not being very conclusive)

I think I may have tried the old 'tapping the end with a hammer' trick, so worth trying that.

I may well have posted my problem on here so will search it out and let you know.

[mocambique-amazone]

Harvey, to give you a help it will need to know if your 164 is a automatic or a manuel one. good night, regards, Kay

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Harvey1963

I'm baffled so need some advice.

Owned my 1969 164 for six months. Car has always started first time every time with a strong starter motor with no apparent issues.

Today took the car out for a short drive. Car started first time as usual and drove for 6 miles without incident. Mid journey home I stopped at a supermarket. A few minutes later I went to restart and the starter/solenoid was totally unresponsive / dead.

The battery is good and everything else is working as it should. I bump started the car and returned home. On turning off and trying to restart, again there is absolutely nothing coming from the starter, not even a solenoid click. I've checked the voltage between the power lead at the starter and the earth of the starter body and I am getting voltage all the time even without the ignition on.

I'm not too sure of the electrical workings and don't understand what tells the solenoid to activate. Anyway whatever is wrong, the starter is completely inoperative.

I need help before I incur the expense of my local classic specialist.

As above , tap it with a hammer and try again , if it works , the brushes will be worn ... there is a small wire going on to the solenoid on the starter , remove this terminal and apply 12 volts direct and see if it works too .

[mocambique-amazone]

Personally I don't like people who are on different forums with the same quetion at the same time because they can't wait (Or think , "why I should bother about they don't know. I will ask someone else)

good morning, Kay

[Harvey1963]

It's a manual. Strange thing is I tried again this morning and car started with no issue! Look forward to getting your advice.

[Harvey1963]

Sorry to annoy you but the way I see it not everyone will be on both so the more people who read my question the better chance I get the advice I need.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Harvey1963

It's a manual. Strange thing is I tried again this morning and car started with no issue! Look forward to getting your advice.

Most likely brushes i would say , try the hammer test next time :-)

[Triple-S]

I know naff-all about electrics, but have similar problems with my 144 (which has the same starter as the 164) and the car's previous owner said to turn the engine with a spanner on the crankshaft end if that happens! Not ideal outside Sainsbury's in the peeing rain! Far easier and cleaner is to tug the fan belt round a bit from above, thus turning the engine (if belt not too slack): suspecting possibly more serious problems (starter or even flywheel tooth wear) I'm prepared to live with that as it only seems to happen once a month or so!

P

[mocambique-amazone]

Yes Paul, the engine stopps most of time on same position! Maybe on this position the starter doesn't want to catch rhe flywheel. With a manual it will be more easy to push the car a little bit in 4th gear.
The switch behind the key may be faulty too.
A easy way to control this is a light connected to the small wire on the starter and to ground. If the light is on while try to start the soleonid is gone. Maybe the starter/ the brushes too. The trick with the hammer is not a good one. You have to do this very gently while another person tries to start. On modern car you will destroy the starter because of the s h i t made of plastic inside of the starter.
Some times the ground cable isn't wirking correct any more, another fault if the car won't start.
Good luck, Kay