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A5/B5 0w30 oil brands

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Old Aug 12th, 2017, 08:00   #21
Leyburn
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@ skyship007

The biggest difference with the Amsoil 25k oil is the guarantee, although not in the UK or for cars over 100k miles, but it demonstrates confidence in the product.

For engines with fine tolerances between moving parts, higher viscosity oils can lead to galling. Straight 50 oil isn't a problem with a 60 year old British single motorcycle, one reason being the large tolerances between moving parts (also 1k oil change intervals). The same oil in a D5 engine would be catastrophic. If my D5 starts burning 0w30 then I'll consider switching to a higher viscosity oil.

Assuming that UAO = oil analysis, it's unlikely that anyone is going to do that routinely for a D5.

A key component for 25k oil changes is use. Castrol claim a scarcely believable 18000 engine starts per year for the "normal" driver http://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-...art-index.html . I doubt if I start my D5 more than 1000 times a year, a typical journey being 2 miles country roads, 80 miles motorway, 2 miles (or less) urban. Reverse journey at the end of the working day.

I would be interested to find out if the DPF on my D5 has positively re-generated in my ownership, I've never been aware of it, the oil level has never moved up the dipstick. If I ever need VIDA then this will be something I can check. My previous VAG vehicle was equipped with a DPF warning light, never illuminated in 130k+ miles

in bullet points, what are the key differences between A5/B5 and A3/B4.

Do you work in the oil sector?
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Old Aug 13th, 2017, 00:31   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leyburn View Post
@ skyship007

The biggest difference with the Amsoil 25k oil is the guarantee, although not in the UK or for cars over 100k miles, but it demonstrates confidence in the product.

For engines with fine tolerances between moving parts, higher viscosity oils can lead to galling. Straight 50 oil isn't a problem with a 60 year old British single motorcycle, one reason being the large tolerances between moving parts (also 1k oil change intervals). The same oil in a D5 engine would be catastrophic. If my D5 starts burning 0w30 then I'll consider switching to a higher viscosity oil.

Assuming that UAO = oil analysis, it's unlikely that anyone is going to do that routinely for a D5.

A key component for 25k oil changes is use. Castrol claim a scarcely believable 18000 engine starts per year for the "normal" driver http://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-...art-index.html . I doubt if I start my D5 more than 1000 times
a year, a typical journey being 2 miles country roads, 80 miles motorway, 2 miles (or less) urban. Reverse journey at the end of the working day.

I would be interested to find out if the DPF on my D5 has positively re-generated in my ownership, I've never been aware of it, the oil level has never moved up the
dipstick. If I ever need VIDA then this will be something I can check. My previous VAG vehicle was equipped with a DPF warning light, never illuminated in 130k+ miles

in bullet points, what are the key differences between A5/B5 and A3/B4.

Do you work in the oil sector?
The Amsoil guarantee is a well know joke, as you will never be able to prove that their oil killed an engine!
Also if you use any oil beyond the Volvo max recommended OCI, it will invalidate a Volvo or Amsoil warranty. I think the Volvo warranty is valid for 3 years, although I don't know what limits apply to extended dealer or the dreaded car guarantee warranties.
Mobil offer a similar oily gurantee and have paid out a few times for oil filter failures (They make some real good extended life oil filters).

You can tell when a Castrol or Amsoil marketing expert is lying cos their lips move. I don't even trust official written comments from Castrol R&D folks, as I asked them if an Acea C3 oil (Castrol Edge TD 5w40) was OK for my old diesel and they had the audacity to tell me their C3 oil could be used in any engine that has has A3/B4 spec. So I tested their oil over a 10K km OCI and the UOA results showed double the wear metals (Mostly Iron, Lead, Alum and Copper). The figures went back to normal when I used LM Synthoil 5w40 or Ultra 5w40 (Both A3/B4).

The new Acea A5/B5 oils are designed for max fuel economy and for a variety of reasons 40 grades are not included as far as I'm aware. There is a specific warning on the main Acea web site that the new cat does not provide enough anti wear protection for many older engines, BUT in reality they don't provide enough protection for more modern engines either!

If your engine is not under warranty and the DPF system allows the use of Acea A3/B4 oils, I would defintely not use any other spec oil. The main issue is the new oils either have far too much Moly (Enough to result in long term corrosion), or lack Zinc based anti wear additives. They might not cause any real issues during the initial warranty period, but are bad news if you are a real long term owner.

Design spec failure for my old diesel is based on the head gasket and if that is replaced before causing real harm, main bearing fatigue failures at around 500K miles of average use.
In practice most owners that use the wrong oil, bad filters or too long an OCI suffer turbo bearing failures before the HG starts to leak.

Although I'm using Shell Ultra 5w40 or Liqui Moly Synthoil 5w40 at present (I get the same UOA results), I will change to using Mobil 10w60 EP (Not the race version) when the mains start to rattle.
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Last edited by skyship007; Aug 13th, 2017 at 03:30.
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Old Aug 13th, 2017, 23:09   #23
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You've made some claims re: the risk of extended oil change intervals causing engine damage, but you then state that this couldn't be proven "in the balance of probability" i.e. proof required in a civil court. That doesn't inspire much confidence in your claims.

You've slated Castrol and Amsoil, are they your competitors?

If A5/B5 oil is designed to increase economy then it's probably low friction, is that not good for low wear?

If molybdenum is a problem, then why is it sold as an additive?

Autocar article mentions 500,000 engine starts for a stop / start car over its lifetime https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...r-car-s-engine
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Old Aug 14th, 2017, 02:07   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leyburn View Post
You've made some claims re: the risk of extended oil change intervals causing engine damage, but you then state that this couldn't be proven "in the balance of probability" i.e. proof required in a civil court. That doesn't inspire much confidence in your claims.

You've slated Castrol and Amsoil, are they your competitors?

If A5/B5 oil is designed to increase economy then it's probably low friction, is that not good for low wear?

If molybdenum is a problem, then why is it sold as an additive?

Autocar article mentions 500,000 engine starts for a stop / start car over its lifetime https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...r-car-s-engine
There are several types of Moly used as a friction modifying additive and the cheap stuff can fall out of suspension.

Alas friction is only part of the story in engine wear terms. How well the oil cleans and reduces long term corrosion of the bearings is just as important.

Oddly enough some of the best German standard full synthetics do not use Moly as an additive as it makes no difference, but they still use Zinc based anti wear additives.

I'm not working for any oil company, although I tend to like Shell and Liqui Moly. Liqui Moly make the best additives and top of the range oils, but Shell Ultra seems nearly as good and is normally cheaper. Castrol and Mobil both seem to be overpriced in the UK.

Extended OCI's are only really safe if you get the used oil analysed.

Amsoils do tend to have a very high level of detergent additives, so can sometimes last a long time in terms of resisting sludge formation, BUT the limiting factor can easily be fuel or dust (Silicon) contamination if you use the oil for a real long OCI.
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Last edited by skyship007; Aug 14th, 2017 at 02:20.
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Old Aug 15th, 2017, 08:36   #25
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Nothing is really safe, it's a percentage game. If extended oil change intervals without oil analyses break engines, where are all the broken engines?

What is the main cause of corrosion to engine bearings? Is it not caused by extended periods of rest with used oil in the engine? Hence always change engine oil before hibernating for winter.
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Old Feb 26th, 2018, 19:10   #26
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Another 22k miles, another oil/filter change. I'm trying 5w40 Liqui Moly fully synthetic this time. Engine is probably a bit rattlier when cold, but quieter when hot.
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Old Feb 26th, 2018, 22:39   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leyburn View Post
If quality oil shows "serious degradation" after 10k mainly motorway miles then all my daily drivers for the last 30+ years should have suffered engine problems, but none did, strange that.

I know my driving habits better than any manufacturer, this enables me to be confident that a D5 is capable of 25k miles between oil changes, with the right oil. Amsoil market a 25k oil, might give that a try.
I tend to agree. My previous 2 cars both ran long life oils and both ended up having a very long life (and both are still going).
My previous C-class was setup to run 20000Km intervals. The average intervals before the car asked for service ended up being ~27000Km.
This because the car came equipped with "I don't know what" that actually measured the oil property. Tons of city driving and the car would require service before 20000km, otherwise it would do about 30000km.

That said, the car was traded in for the volvo with very close to 700000Km with no issues. Was still on original turbo, original timing chain, and did not require oil top ups between services.
Normal ran Motul Specific MB299.51 or Shell ultra in 5W-30

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Old Aug 24th, 2018, 09:29   #28
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Another 20k miles or so, another oil/filter change. This time I've used Liqui Moly 0w30 A5B5. Engine remains sprightly as it approaches 200k miles, the rest of the car is showing its age, particularly the suspension.
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Old Aug 24th, 2018, 11:24   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leyburn View Post
Thanks for the reply. 5w30 is generally cheaper than 0w30. I've used Mannol 20w50 in a couple of bikes.

20k miles is not much further than the Volvo recommended mileage of 18k, also 90% of my mileage is m/way and dual carriageway outside peak hours, so the car is generally moving at 50mph+ . It's easier to remember 20k intervals!
20,000 miles!

Engine rebuild coming up.
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Old Aug 24th, 2018, 11:30   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leyburn View Post
You have your opinion, I have mine, supported by several hundred thousand miles of extending the manufacturer's extended mileage intervals on a variety of vehicles.

A quality fully synthetic oil shouldn't show meaningful degradation after 10k miles unless short journeys and/or fuel blow-by.
No offence but you have not really put your side of the discussion as an opinion, you seem to be saying with authority that modern oils can go long distances in excess of Volvos own recommendation.

Oil technology is much better than it once was however modern dpf equipped cars can return diesel to the sump if not correctly regenerated, it’s a common Occurance (google it), no oil works well when diluted with diesel or risen above its level (this can happen on long journeys under ideal conditions even if the regen has not completed). The blow back gases and carbon deposits are also present for 20,000 miles.

The only FACT here is that your advice at best suits a small range of cars driven under certain conditions and at worst shows a complete lack of understanding of lubrricatiin.

My OPINION is that people should take your advice and do the opposite,

Best Regards
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