Air con compressor seized. Car would not start.

[rogereld]

Re-gas was done on 1st June 2017 at mileage of 153550. I was told leak tests found no faults with 300g refrigerant removed and 1000g put in. During July I thought it was not putting out very cold air and fans seemed to be running at higher speed. We have been on holiday for 2 weeks and done 1000 miles in that time. Hissing noises from behind the dashboard were getting more noticeable and not much cooling evident from the vents, but outside temperatures have been mostly 15-20 celsius so not a big worry.

After a 2.5 hour journey returning from holiday we stopped in a garden centre for a 30 minute break. Returned to the car to continue our journey and turning the key produced a nasty grinding sound, but engine would not run. Quick check of the dipstick (as it sounded like something seizing up and not running freely). Engine oil level OK, but after several failed start attempts with increasingly painful noises, I called the AA.

Conclusion was the air conditioning compressor had seized, placing heavy load on the auxiliary belt that was enough to stop the engine running. Switching off the air con was enough to get the car started eventually after several attempts.

Is it possible to re-gas and not put lubrication oil in? I was not expecting a service of the air con to have such drastic results. Mileage is now 155867 so we have done 2317 miles between the re-gas and failure of the compressor. Do I have any reason to complain or is it reasonable to expect the compressor to fail at this mileage? The car has always been run on auto climate control set at 20 degrees.

(2001 V70 2.4T petrol engine with manual gearbox)

[Clan]

Originally Posted by rogereld

Re-gas was done on 1st June 2017 at mileage of 153550. I was told leak tests found no faults with 300g refrigerant removed and 1000g put in. During July I thought it was not putting out very cold air and fans seemed to be running at higher speed. We have been on holiday for 2 weeks and done 1000 miles in that time. Hissing noises from behind the dashboard were getting more noticeable and not much cooling evident from the vents, but outside temperatures have been mostly 15-20 celsius so not a big worry.

After a 2.5 hour journey returning from holiday we stopped in a garden centre for a 30 minute break. Returned to the car to continue our journey and turning the key produced a nasty grinding sound, but engine would not run. Quick check of the dipstick (as it sounded like something seizing up and not running freely). Engine oil level OK, but after several failed start attempts with increasingly painful noises, I called the AA.

Conclusion was the air conditioning compressor had seized, placing heavy load on the auxiliary belt that was enough to stop the engine running. Switching off the air con was enough to get the car started eventually after several attempts.

Is it possible to re-gas and not put lubrication oil in? I was not expecting a service of the air con to have such drastic results. Mileage is now 155867 so we have done 2317 miles between the re-gas and failure of the compressor. Do I have any reason to complain or is it reasonable to expect the compressor to fail at this mileage? The car has always been run on auto climate control set at 20 degrees.

(2001 V70 2.4T petrol engine with manual gearbox)

a "re-gas|" means there is a leak somewhere It is now illegal to put gas in without finding the leak ... They did not try hard enough .

Regarding oil , if they did it professionally the amount of oil that came out during the process would have been put back in ... You only need to add a quantity of oil when replacing a part of the AC or there has been a burst which would spray oil everywhere .
I guess that is not a bad lifespan for an AC pump ... although running it with low gas and hence a low amount of oil circulating would not have done it any good .

[rogereld]

The "re-gas" was an air con service done by my local Volvo main dealer. They are normally very good and we have a good relationship. I do not want to complain to them unless I have good reason. Is the failure of the compressor pump 2000 miles after servicing sufficient reason?

The Air con system was last serviced in 2011 at 106,000 miles by an independent specialist when the compressor was removed to adjust the clutch gap and a damaged pipe fitting to the drier was repaired. (Volvo would not do a clutch gap repair, only replacement with a new compressor). No leaks were found after refilling at that time and the system has worked well, with possibly a slight reduction in efficiency over time. It was in my opinion working normally until this year when I thought it needed a service. Would the gradual loss of refrigerant over six years be reasonable?

[cheshired5]

Originally Posted by rogereld

Conclusion was the air conditioning compressor had seized, placing heavy load on the auxiliary belt that was enough to stop the engine running. Switching off the air con was enough to get the car started eventually after several attempts.

I don't get this at all.

Asking the starter motor to turn an engine and an engaged ac compressor wouldn't make sense so power is cut to every non essential part of the car and that would include the ac solenoid.
Your lights and radio don't even work during starting so why would the ac?

[rogereld]

Possibly with a hot engine the compressor was engaging as soon as ignition was complete?

The engine fired up but stopped after around 3-5 seconds of screeching combined with a bit of smoke from under the bonnet. Switching off air con the screeching continued for 5 or 6 more start up attempts, then ceased and everything was running smoothly. I could start and stop the engine as normal. With the engine running smoothly at tickover, I switched the air con on, and immediately the screeching noise started and the engine stalled within a few seconds. Switched air con off and it took several more start attempts to get back to normal.

Because of this, the AA technician disconnected the electrical lead from the compressor and cable tied it to the dipstick tube to ensure it would not touch the aux drive belt. That should provide a short term solution and avoid any accidental engine stoppage which could otherwise be caused by pressing the air con or auto climate control button.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by rogereld

The "re-gas" was an air con service done by my local Volvo main dealer. They are normally very good and we have a good relationship. I do not want to complain to them unless I have good reason. Is the failure of the compressor pump 2000 miles after servicing sufficient reason?

The Air con system was last serviced in 2011 at 106,000 miles by an independent specialist when the compressor was removed to adjust the clutch gap and a damaged pipe fitting to the drier was repaired. (Volvo would not do a clutch gap repair, only replacement with a new compressor). No leaks were found after refilling at that time and the system has worked well, with possibly a slight reduction in efficiency over time. It was in my opinion working normally until this year when I thought it needed a service. Would the gradual loss of refrigerant over six years be reasonable?

What probably happened was that the gas was lost by a new larger leak in say the final 6 months .
AC systems should remain working for many years with no loss . the old 440 and S40/V40 and 850 were very good at keeping their gas for over 10 years and more .. Today there are laws stating that the system should loose no more than 10g of gas per year or something like that , can't remember the exact figure ..

[cheshired5]

Originally Posted by rogereld

The engine fired up but stopped after around 3-5 seconds of screeching combined with a bit of smoke from under the bonnet.

Ok, well with this extra information, I'm now understanding much better.
Detail is everything.

[aland]

As mentioned above, the AC compressor is disengaged while cranking - and usually doesn't engage for a few seconds after starting.
From your description, I suspect the AC clutch was stuck engaged (and then the compressor siezed) - hence screeching DURING start.
Maybe the re-gap work a few years back was related to this, but unlikely.
I'd guess that the outer bearing failed, causing the clutch to become stuck engaged, which then led to the inner bearing failing, hence the seize.

I'd replace the compressor with a good s/h part and re-charge.

[rogereld]

I think the clutch bearings are OK. With the a/c switched off the clutch will not auto engage so the engine keeps running. Pressing the switch causes the clutch to engage. This makes me think the clutch is working as it should. The aux belt freewheels with no noise with the clutch disengaged suggesting no problem with the clutch bearing. It is only when the clutch is engaged that the problem occurs.

If I have understood the way it works, under normal conditions the clutch would engage until the compressor had pumped a measured amount and then a sensor would trigger release of the clutch. If the clutch engages and the pump inner bearings are almost seized (making a terrible noise) the pump could take longer than usual to reach the pressure required to release, hence needing several start attempts.

I am fairly certain I will need a replacement compressor, and may also need a specialist to do some leak tracing and repair.

[Bill_56]

Thing that would worry me here would be the load on the auxiliary belt, sufficient to stall the engine, and possible source of smoke.

If the belt has been stressed to that extent, should we be encouraging Rogerid to change the belt, knowing the possible consequences of wrecked engine if aux belt subsequently fails and gets tangled up with the cam belt?

@Rogerid, you may already have thought of that.