V70 XC Auto Transmission fault? - Page 2

treesaregreen · Jul 21st, 2011, 20:14

Right the guy has been out and given it a thorough going over.

Excuse my layman terms!

Has cleared off the transmission fault light and can find no reason for it - nothing reading on his gismo.

The engine electronic system light is still on and again no faults are found on his gismo so that is still a mystery - would welcome your thoughts.

Mr Treesaregreen arrived home whilst the guy was here so they got technical (I think) the only fault the guy could find is that there is not enough pressure coming through the exhaust at 3000rpm.

He did readings on the catalytic converter and all ok. So thought possible senario is that car has previously been driven gently on short journies, now it gets driven on longer journies with the aid of Mr Treesaregreen's rather heavey right foot it could have caused a partial blockage in the exhaust system. This does in fact fit in with how the car has been driven now and in the past. Readings on the down stream exhaust sensor also indicated a partial blockage, the upstream sensor readings were fine.

Personally I think that as there is not enough pressure coming through the exhaust then gases are backing up causing the light to be on? feasable?

Mr Treesaregreen took it for a spin up the road and it drove perfectly, not sluggish and pulling away nicely with the auto box changing correctly.

The guy said it was absolutely fine to drive even with the light on - what do you think? Would hate to be doing more damage although the guy had over 25yrs experiance and certainly was very knowledgable.

He did not recommend that the exhaust be replaced, just to drive it and see how it goes.

He also checked the transmission fluid which is brown, he recommended that we got this replaced (not something he could do as he is purley mobile). I can not find any thing in the service log book or the manual to recommend frequency of changing or if in fact it needs changing though, does anyone know?

capt jack · Jul 21st, 2011, 20:40

Well, the problem with V70s of that age are that their computer software is not necessarily fully OBDII compliant. 97/98 cars were built just before full industry-wide On Board Diagnostics were standardised. This means that not all generic non-Volvo code readers will be able to read the codes successfully. If your tame Gizmo-man didn't have the right code reader it maybe that he's missed the fault.

If the light is still on it's because the car's computer thinks that there is still a fault.

The engine warning light has lit up twice during my ownership of my V70 - both times an RAC patrol couldn't detect a fault, both times the Volvo dealer could - and fixed it. First time it was the cam position sensor, the second time it was the oxygen sensor in the exhaust.

What may happen is that having sensed a fault the car's computer will modify the engine's running parameters in order to counter-act the 'fault'. If this continues then you could be saving up problems for the future.

Others on here have more detailed knowledge of exactly which cars are and are not fully OBDII.

It's good that the gearbox fault code is apparently cleared, but I certainly wouldn't ignore the engine light. I'd personally completely disagree with your man on that one. It's true that a hefty blast up the motorway might clear out things a bit, but it ain't very scientific!

On the subject of the gearbox oil, reddy brown is OK, so long as it's not very dark and muddy, and smelling offensively burnt. Volvo generally don't recommend autobox oil changes unless the car is used a lot for towing or in regular stop-start motoring - eg as a city taxi. Opinion is divided, and a fluid change might cost you £100 to £150 or so, and make absolutely no difference. The oil in our 250,000-miler V70, and that in our 150,000-miler S70 autos is the original in both cases, as I tend to the view that if it ain't bust don't fix it.

For the sake of a £few, if the car is otherwise worth keeping then it'd be worth getting the definitive word from a Volvo dealer or specialist - with the correct code reader.

Good luck

Cheers

Jack

treesaregreen · Jul 21st, 2011, 23:00

Thanks Capt Jack

Wish I'd listened to you in the first place when you said take it to a Volvo dealer, guess we were thinking independant would be cheaper and diagnostics would be the same - oh well you learn something new everyday!

Right going to phone up Volvo tomorrow to see what they say as not happy about the light being on, something obviously is not right.

Thanks again, appreciate the time you have taken to reply

capt jack · Jul 22nd, 2011, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by treesaregreen

Thanks Capt Jack

Wish I'd listened to you in the first place when you said take it to a Volvo dealer, guess we were thinking independant would be cheaper and diagnostics would be the same - oh well you learn something new everyday!

Right going to phone up Volvo tomorrow to see what they say as not happy about the light being on, something obviously is not right.

Thanks again, appreciate the time you have taken to reply

You're most welcome. Volvo dealers are I've always found very good towards the owners of older cars, unlike most dealers, where if it's more than a year old they're not interested.

Very often the Service Desk people are long-serving Volvo, and have a genuine interest in the older models, especially what they see as 'pre-Ford' proper Volvo cars (ie: older than 2002).

Get the diagnostics done by Volvo for sure, and once you know what the problem is then of course it's up to you where you go to get it fixed! In my direct experience a Volvo dealer will own up to being expensive, and will recommend a trustworthy cheaper alternative garage!

Cheers

Jack

treesaregreen · Jul 23rd, 2011, 13:59

Well Volvo dealer did not have the right equipment to read the ecu on the car but directed us to a garage that did.

Unfortunately not great news, apparently there is a fault with the either gear selection switch or the cables. The guy said it would cost £1500 to repair (was talking new gearbox so perhaps not familur with volvo's?) and he did not recommend spending any money on it on that basis but to carry on driving it until it stopped driving. The engine electronic system fault light is still on.

As said before it does not get used very much, perhaps once a week / once a fortnight.

Been thinking about it and its such a lovely car, really great condition etc I don't want to give up on it so easy.

Did a search and on E-bay saw that a auto box selector switch sold for £22, Mr Treearegreen is reading through the Haynes manual (came with the car) at the moment. Is it as easy as it reads to replace this switch?

At the moment we have 3 choices:
1. drive until it don't drive no more then sell for repair / parts
2. Buy the part and get someone / attempt to fit it ourselves (depending how hard it is) - Mr Treesaregreen is a heating engineer so not totally inept.
3. stick it on e-bay now whilst it is still driving, detailing fault, and cut our losses.

The e-bay listing for the selector switch said this was a common fault - is this right? In which case how much would you expect it to cost at a garage to get the selector replaced?

capt jack · Jul 23rd, 2011, 18:45

Is the good Mr T consulting the 2wd Haynes, as I don't think it actually covers the 4wd versions of the car. But if the gearbox selector switch is the same then I would say that it's well worth trying to sort it out.

The options are:

1. Refurbish the existing switch (it's also referred to as the PNP switch). You can get kits to do this for about a £10 from partsforvolvos.co.uk. Basically there are three copper contacts that wear out and need to be replaced.
2. Get a switch from a reputable scrappy and fit it - maybe £30 or so, but of course no guarantees it'll work for too long.
3. Do 1 and 2 above - get a 2nd hand switch, refurb and fit it, then refurb the original as a spare.
4. Get a brand new switch from partsforvolvos.co.uk for around £65 or so.
5. Get a brand new switch from Volvo for about £120.

All the above involve MrT in getting his hands dirty!

6. Get a garage to fit a new switch - say 2-3 hours labour plus parts.

That £1500 sounds like a shot in the dark. a brand new gearbox is about £3000 from Volvo. A second-hand one from a scrappy will be about £300 to £500 plus around £500 to have a garage fit it. All of which sounds a bit extreme if the only problem is the PNP switch.

The thing is, if it is the switch and it packs up, the car will be completely immobilised. By the way, one clue is the reverse lights. They are controlled by the same switch and might not be working properly or even at all. If they flicker as you gently 'jiggle' the gear lever that's a good clue too.

If Mr T is a man of the spanners, and assuming the Haynes book covers it, then changing the PNP should not present a major challenge.

Is the car worth it? Well if say the PNP ends up costing £100 and an afternoon's work then most definitely yes. One of the beauties of older Volvos is their repairability. When my V70 (1997 and 243,000 miles) developed a nasty oil leak I was faced with a similar decision. The repair cost £650 - on a car that's probably actually worth less than that. But it was worth it to me.

If you try selling your car with the fault you'll get next to nothing for it, the buyer will attempt the repairs as outlined above and in all probability be laughing all the way to the bank when he sells it on at a profit.

Your decision of course, but I hope the above ramblings help a bit.

Cheers

Jack

PS Did your man say why the engine management light is still on? Did he give you the codes? Jack.

Chris_Rogers · Jul 23rd, 2011, 19:04

I'd suggest you will get nowhere by guessing what the problem is, the car will be OBDII compliant so a cheap code reader like this will enable you to read the fault codes from the engine and the majority of gearbox faults.

http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_GDEOBD.html

If it is a '98 model with the ESW switch near the gear lever and a cable throttle not an electronic one, then you can get full diagnostics for the whole car, at a bit more cost, if you have a suitable laptop:

http://www.ilexa.co.uk/diagnostic-tools/vol-fcr.html
Cable here:
http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VAGUSB.html

The garages don't seem to be helping much but without the fault codes we can't either.

treesaregreen · Jul 23rd, 2011, 19:27

Thanks for replying again Jack you really are a star.

No the guy never gave us the codes, gave us an A4 print out with 'Volvo check fault codes gearbox selector fault' that is all that is on it.

We have just been out to the car and done the wiggle test on the gear stick whilst in reverse and the reversing lights don't flicker.

Could it still be the PNP even though the lights don't flicker (I presumn so as the codes are saying it is or maybe the code was read wrong)?

Also the man said the light was on because of the selector fault.

treesaregreen · Jul 23rd, 2011, 19:40

Hi Chris

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately the car is pre OBDII compliant, we know this as we had a mobile guy out on Thursday with a OBDII reader which could not identify any faults other then the upstream sensor on the exhaust system was slightly lower then it should be.

The OBDII did not identify a problem with the gearbox even though the arrow was flashing on the dash along with the engine electronic management light.

The guy with the OBDII cleared the flashing arrow, but did not know how he did it, the guy today, with the older test equipment told us that eleven faults had been recorded since the flashing arrow had been reset.

I can phone the company up monday (that we went to today) to try and get the fault codes as really they should have given them to us. (we were so shocked at the £1500 estimated repair bill we forgot to ask for them)

Chris_Rogers · Jul 23rd, 2011, 19:47

I'd suggest there is something else wrong then, there where no XC models that were not OBDII compliant.

Jul 21st, 2011, 20:40	#12
capt jack VOC Member Last Online: Apr 20th, 2024 18:56 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Selby, North Yorkshire	Yes, but............... Well, the problem with V70s of that age are that their computer software is not necessarily fully OBDII compliant. 97/98 cars were built just before full industry-wide On Board Diagnostics were standardised. This means that not all generic non-Volvo code readers will be able to read the codes successfully. If your tame Gizmo-man didn't have the right code reader it maybe that he's missed the fault. If the light is still on it's because the car's computer thinks that there is still a fault. The engine warning light has lit up twice during my ownership of my V70 - both times an RAC patrol couldn't detect a fault, both times the Volvo dealer could - and fixed it. First time it was the cam position sensor, the second time it was the oxygen sensor in the exhaust. What may happen is that having sensed a fault the car's computer will modify the engine's running parameters in order to counter-act the 'fault'. If this continues then you could be saving up problems for the future. Others on here have more detailed knowledge of exactly which cars are and are not fully OBDII. It's good that the gearbox fault code is apparently cleared, but I certainly wouldn't ignore the engine light. I'd personally completely disagree with your man on that one. It's true that a hefty blast up the motorway might clear out things a bit, but it ain't very scientific! On the subject of the gearbox oil, reddy brown is OK, so long as it's not very dark and muddy, and smelling offensively burnt. Volvo generally don't recommend autobox oil changes unless the car is used a lot for towing or in regular stop-start motoring - eg as a city taxi. Opinion is divided, and a fluid change might cost you £100 to £150 or so, and make absolutely no difference. The oil in our 250,000-miler V70, and that in our 150,000-miler S70 autos is the original in both cases, as I tend to the view that if it ain't bust don't fix it. For the sake of a £few, if the car is otherwise worth keeping then it'd be worth getting the definitive word from a Volvo dealer or specialist - with the correct code reader. Good luck Cheers Jack

Jul 23rd, 2011, 18:45	#16
capt jack VOC Member Last Online: Apr 20th, 2024 18:56 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Selby, North Yorkshire	Is the good Mr T consulting the 2wd Haynes, as I don't think it actually covers the 4wd versions of the car. But if the gearbox selector switch is the same then I would say that it's well worth trying to sort it out. The options are: 1. Refurbish the existing switch (it's also referred to as the PNP switch). You can get kits to do this for about a £10 from partsforvolvos.co.uk. Basically there are three copper contacts that wear out and need to be replaced. 2. Get a switch from a reputable scrappy and fit it - maybe £30 or so, but of course no guarantees it'll work for too long. 3. Do 1 and 2 above - get a 2nd hand switch, refurb and fit it, then refurb the original as a spare. 4. Get a brand new switch from partsforvolvos.co.uk for around £65 or so. 5. Get a brand new switch from Volvo for about £120. All the above involve MrT in getting his hands dirty! 6. Get a garage to fit a new switch - say 2-3 hours labour plus parts. That £1500 sounds like a shot in the dark. a brand new gearbox is about £3000 from Volvo. A second-hand one from a scrappy will be about £300 to £500 plus around £500 to have a garage fit it. All of which sounds a bit extreme if the only problem is the PNP switch. The thing is, if it is the switch and it packs up, the car will be completely immobilised. By the way, one clue is the reverse lights. They are controlled by the same switch and might not be working properly or even at all. If they flicker as you gently 'jiggle' the gear lever that's a good clue too. If Mr T is a man of the spanners, and assuming the Haynes book covers it, then changing the PNP should not present a major challenge. Is the car worth it? Well if say the PNP ends up costing £100 and an afternoon's work then most definitely yes. One of the beauties of older Volvos is their repairability. When my V70 (1997 and 243,000 miles) developed a nasty oil leak I was faced with a similar decision. The repair cost £650 - on a car that's probably actually worth less than that. But it was worth it to me. If you try selling your car with the fault you'll get next to nothing for it, the buyer will attempt the repairs as outlined above and in all probability be laughing all the way to the bank when he sells it on at a profit. Your decision of course, but I hope the above ramblings help a bit. Cheers Jack PS Did your man say why the engine management light is still on? Did he give you the codes? Jack. Last edited by capt jack; Jul 23rd, 2011 at 18:49.

Jul 21st, 2011, 20:14	#11
treesaregreen New Member Last Online: Aug 8th, 2011 08:26 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ipswich	Right the guy has been out and given it a thorough going over. Excuse my layman terms! Has cleared off the transmission fault light and can find no reason for it - nothing reading on his gismo. The engine electronic system light is still on and again no faults are found on his gismo so that is still a mystery - would welcome your thoughts. Mr Treesaregreen arrived home whilst the guy was here so they got technical (I think) the only fault the guy could find is that there is not enough pressure coming through the exhaust at 3000rpm. He did readings on the catalytic converter and all ok. So thought possible senario is that car has previously been driven gently on short journies, now it gets driven on longer journies with the aid of Mr Treesaregreen's rather heavey right foot it could have caused a partial blockage in the exhaust system. This does in fact fit in with how the car has been driven now and in the past. Readings on the down stream exhaust sensor also indicated a partial blockage, the upstream sensor readings were fine. Personally I think that as there is not enough pressure coming through the exhaust then gases are backing up causing the light to be on? feasable? Mr Treesaregreen took it for a spin up the road and it drove perfectly, not sluggish and pulling away nicely with the auto box changing correctly. The guy said it was absolutely fine to drive even with the light on - what do you think? Would hate to be doing more damage although the guy had over 25yrs experiance and certainly was very knowledgable. He did not recommend that the exhaust be replaced, just to drive it and see how it goes. He also checked the transmission fluid which is brown, he recommended that we got this replaced (not something he could do as he is purley mobile). I can not find any thing in the service log book or the manual to recommend frequency of changing or if in fact it needs changing though, does anyone know?

Jul 21st, 2011, 23:00	#13
treesaregreen New Member Last Online: Aug 8th, 2011 08:26 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ipswich	Thanks Capt Jack Wish I'd listened to you in the first place when you said take it to a Volvo dealer, guess we were thinking independant would be cheaper and diagnostics would be the same - oh well you learn something new everyday! Right going to phone up Volvo tomorrow to see what they say as not happy about the light being on, something obviously is not right. Thanks again, appreciate the time you have taken to reply

Jul 23rd, 2011, 13:59	#15
treesaregreen New Member Last Online: Aug 8th, 2011 08:26 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ipswich	Well Volvo dealer did not have the right equipment to read the ecu on the car but directed us to a garage that did. Unfortunately not great news, apparently there is a fault with the either gear selection switch or the cables. The guy said it would cost £1500 to repair (was talking new gearbox so perhaps not familur with volvo's?) and he did not recommend spending any money on it on that basis but to carry on driving it until it stopped driving. The engine electronic system fault light is still on. As said before it does not get used very much, perhaps once a week / once a fortnight. Been thinking about it and its such a lovely car, really great condition etc I don't want to give up on it so easy. Did a search and on E-bay saw that a auto box selector switch sold for £22, Mr Treearegreen is reading through the Haynes manual (came with the car) at the moment. Is it as easy as it reads to replace this switch? At the moment we have 3 choices: 1. drive until it don't drive no more then sell for repair / parts 2. Buy the part and get someone / attempt to fit it ourselves (depending how hard it is) - Mr Treesaregreen is a heating engineer so not totally inept. 3. stick it on e-bay now whilst it is still driving, detailing fault, and cut our losses. The e-bay listing for the selector switch said this was a common fault - is this right? In which case how much would you expect it to cost at a garage to get the selector replaced?

Jul 23rd, 2011, 19:04	#17
Chris_Rogers VOC Member Last Online: Apr 10th, 2017 16:55 Join Date: Jan 1970 Location: South Kent Coast	I'd suggest you will get nowhere by guessing what the problem is, the car will be OBDII compliant so a cheap code reader like this will enable you to read the fault codes from the engine and the majority of gearbox faults. http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_GDEOBD.html If it is a '98 model with the ESW switch near the gear lever and a cable throttle not an electronic one, then you can get full diagnostics for the whole car, at a bit more cost, if you have a suitable laptop: http://www.ilexa.co.uk/diagnostic-tools/vol-fcr.html Cable here: http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VAGUSB.html The garages don't seem to be helping much but without the fault codes we can't either.

Jul 23rd, 2011, 19:27	#18
treesaregreen New Member Last Online: Aug 8th, 2011 08:26 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ipswich	Thanks for replying again Jack you really are a star. No the guy never gave us the codes, gave us an A4 print out with 'Volvo check fault codes gearbox selector fault' that is all that is on it. We have just been out to the car and done the wiggle test on the gear stick whilst in reverse and the reversing lights don't flicker. Could it still be the PNP even though the lights don't flicker (I presumn so as the codes are saying it is or maybe the code was read wrong)? Also the man said the light was on because of the selector fault.

Jul 23rd, 2011, 19:40	#19
treesaregreen New Member Last Online: Aug 8th, 2011 08:26 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ipswich	Hi Chris Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately the car is pre OBDII compliant, we know this as we had a mobile guy out on Thursday with a OBDII reader which could not identify any faults other then the upstream sensor on the exhaust system was slightly lower then it should be. The OBDII did not identify a problem with the gearbox even though the arrow was flashing on the dash along with the engine electronic management light. The guy with the OBDII cleared the flashing arrow, but did not know how he did it, the guy today, with the older test equipment told us that eleven faults had been recorded since the flashing arrow had been reset. I can phone the company up monday (that we went to today) to try and get the fault codes as really they should have given them to us. (we were so shocked at the £1500 estimated repair bill we forgot to ask for them)

Jul 23rd, 2011, 19:47	#20
Chris_Rogers VOC Member Last Online: Apr 10th, 2017 16:55 Join Date: Jan 1970 Location: South Kent Coast	I'd suggest there is something else wrong then, there where no XC models that were not OBDII compliant.

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