Volvo Community Forum. The Forums of the Volvo Owners Club

Forum Rules Volvo Owners Club About VOC Volvo Gallery Links Volvo History Volvo Press
Go Back   Volvo Owners Club Forum > "Technical Topics" > 200 Series General

Notices

200 Series General Forum for the Volvo 240 and 260 cars

Information
  • VOC Members: There is no login facility using your VOC membership number or the details from page 3 of the club magazine. You need to register in the normal way
  • AOL Customers: Make sure you check the 'Remember me' check box otherwise the AOL system may log you out during the session. This is a known issue with AOL.
  • AOL, Yahoo and Plus.net users. Forum owners such as us are finding that AOL, Yahoo and Plus.net are blocking a lot of email generated from forums. This may mean your registration activation and other emails will not get to you, or they may appear in your spam mailbox

Thread Informations

V6 not starting

Views : 10206

Replies : 74

Users Viewing This Thread :  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Dec 16th, 2020, 18:05   #11
1978
Junior Member
 

Last Online: Apr 3rd, 2024 12:52
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: WISBECH
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUGIE68 View Post
Having revived few old 262c ( and broken up some) I feel your pain but there is only one way to deal with it... New injectors and seals, the engine will simply not behave if there are any airleaks. they are about 23+vat each and available everywhere.
When you did the metering unit did you hone the cast faces flat and to a polish and did you smear a very thin film of Loctite on each face? If not you get leakage across the ports.
Another common issue is the tank rusting from the inside.

Was the car you got the one that went to auction with 20000mls a few months back?
Hi Dougie68, Many thanks also for your valuable input.
When we ordered the fuel distributor kit it came with 1200 grit sandpaper but no sealant. We used the sandpaper to surface the faces. We had some of the non sealing sealant on the self here which was a similar type recommended with the kit. Once I can get back on to the car and get some higher fuel pressure through I am expecting some leakage at the injectors!
As yet I haven't been able to get back onto the Volvo due to an unforeseen illness which has left me home bound since the weekend but recovering slowly.
No, this wasn't the one that was at auction, or at least I don't think so, bought it in October and it has 127,000 mls on it. It is LHD model.
1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 1978 For This Useful Post:
Old Dec 16th, 2020, 19:10   #12
DOUGIE68
Member
 

Last Online: Nov 26th, 2023 22:02
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: dunfermline
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
Hi Dougie68, Many thanks also for your valuable input.
When we ordered the fuel distributor kit it came with 1200 grit sandpaper but no sealant. We used the sandpaper to surface the faces. We had some of the non sealing sealant on the self here which was a similar type recommended with the kit. Once I can get back on to the car and get some higher fuel pressure through I am expecting some leakage at the injectors!
As yet I haven't been able to get back onto the Volvo due to an unforeseen illness which has left me home bound since the weekend but recovering slowly.
No, this wasn't the one that was at auction, or at least I don't think so, bought it in October and it has 127,000 mls on it. It is LHD model.
Quite simply, dont bother until you get injectors. they will leak and flood the engine, fill the manifold and sump full of petrol. Also are you sure you havent blocked the air balance pinhole on the tin gasket with sealant? Also check the wiring loom from the ignition module to the coil. It can chaff where it passes the strutop. Sand paper is no good for faces as it doesnt get the faces flat. Gotta use a honing stone. 127k on B27/early B28?? id be checking if it still has lobes on the cams. ( plenty engines and 262c parts here)
You can bypass the fuel pump relay to get the pump to run constantly to check pressure and to start the engine overriding the safety system. If it starts the relay is faulty. Common problem.
DOUGIE68 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DOUGIE68 For This Useful Post:
Old Dec 16th, 2020, 20:37   #13
1978
Junior Member
 

Last Online: Apr 3rd, 2024 12:52
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: WISBECH
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUGIE68 View Post
Quite simply, dont bother until you get injectors. they will leak and flood the engine, fill the manifold and sump full of petrol. Also are you sure you havent blocked the air balance pinhole on the tin gasket with sealant? Also check the wiring loom from the ignition module to the coil. It can chaff where it passes the strutop. Sand paper is no good for faces as it doesnt get the faces flat. Gotta use a honing stone. 127k on B27/early B28?? id be checking if it still has lobes on the cams. ( plenty engines and 262c parts here)
You can bypass the fuel pump relay to get the pump to run constantly to check pressure and to start the engine overriding the safety system. If it starts the relay is faulty. Common problem.
Thanks again Dougie68, good to know you have plenty of 262c parts. We have had the car running albeit on one bank, it will run on all 6 with easy start squirted down the intake, though we know this isn't ideal it was just to find out whether it would run first off. With the fuel distributor I did as the kit instructions were laid out so hopefully it'll be okay. Before we bought the car as a barn find somebody had been messing with the car as it looks like it had problems before. The fuel pump in the tank had been changed and wasn't pumping though it was working. We removed the pump to bench test onlly to discover the pump had been wired positive earth
Once we sorted this we had fuel at the engine bay filter and into the fuel distributor. This was where we decided to crank it over to see if it would start. It fired up on easy start then after a few more cranks the engine started but as I said ran on the right hand bank. We didn't run it for too long as the top rad hose is missing and no water in the system. I think it was only running off the cold start solenoid? We also noticed that the fuel distributor was leaking between the two halves and fuel was only dribbling out of the left banjo coupling which fed the left hand bank. That's when we bought the new kit and pulled apart the unit only to find that some one had been in there before and one of the small tops off the spring was not where it should have been and had punctured a hole in the tin gasket. I replaced everything that was in the kit and reassembled the unit, we then had fuel pressure from the fuel distributor although not what I thought would be great pressure. The car started again after a squirt of easy start, then stopped again, after a few tries it would fire on about 3 cylinders and kind of run roughly on fuel. There was no leaking from the fuel distributor which was good. Then it just would not start. But did on easy start. We pulled the injectors out and blew high pressure through them, 3 sprayed out fuel fairly evenly 2 injectors made loud squealy sound like half blocked and one would not blow through at all.
I am going to check the fuel pump under the car as we have been informed that there is a high pressure pump there and would like to check to see if this is working as well. Will also by pass the relay as you have suggested just to make sure there are no leaks or find leaks.
But I am sure it will defiantly need injectors as you say and will be first port of call to source some as they are fairly easy obtained here.
Many Thanks Pete
1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 1978 For This Useful Post:
Old Dec 17th, 2020, 22:57   #14
DOUGIE68
Member
 

Last Online: Nov 26th, 2023 22:02
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: dunfermline
Default

Tank pump will pump no matter the polarity. There is a high pressure pump and accumulator under the Rear LH floorpan. Easy start and WD40 along with Hammerite should be condemned to corners of hell.
You will need to buy the seals separately
DOUGIE68 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DOUGIE68 For This Useful Post:
Old Dec 17th, 2020, 23:20   #15
Laird Scooby
Premier Member
 
Laird Scooby's Avatar
 

Last Online: Today 08:43
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lakenheath
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUGIE68 View Post
Tank pump will pump no matter the polarity.
It will run regardless of polarity, however it won't shift sufficient liquid if connected the wrong way! It is only a lift pump after all but to move the necessary amount of liquid, needs to be correctly connected.

The pressure pump is usually a roller cell type, similar in general principle of operation to a medical peristaltic pump but not quite the same, just helps with a visualisation of what is happening inside the roller cells. That certainly won't pump anything connected the wrong way round!
__________________
Cheers
Dave

Next Door to Top-Gun with a Honda CR-V & S Type Jag Volvo gone but not forgotten........
Laird Scooby is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Laird Scooby For This Useful Post:
Old Dec 20th, 2020, 12:32   #16
1978
Junior Member
 

Last Online: Apr 3rd, 2024 12:52
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: WISBECH
Wink

Hi Guys, Many thanks for your responses.
Just an up date.
The high pressure pump I found was to be working after the few swift taps of the hammer Though it seemed to be screaming its head off as we cranked the car over. It still had the same pressure at the fuel distributor, so I disconnected the main fuel pipe from the pump to the engine bay filter and blew compressed air through the line. The result, now a cleared line as it blew out bits that looked like nutshell fragments
I removed all the lines and blew the air through them all, we now have good pressure from the high pressure pump. Put it all back together to have very good fuel pressure at the fuel distributor inlet from the main feed. There is still only very low pressure coming out of the Fuel distributor, not what I would expect to open the injectors. The odd thing is that the car tries to start and will run for a second or too. No Easy start either! Condemned to back of garage
There is quite a lot of fuel pressure being returned to the tank too when cranking it over.
I am now wondering if the main fuel feed line from the filter is bolted to the fuel distributor in the wrong place. The main return and main feed pipes in are the same size and as the system has been messed with before we took it apart wouldn't surprise me
Until we have fuel at the injectors I don't really want to spend the money on new injectors just yet. I will try and google a photo of the fuel distributor laid out and go from there. Also just thinking reading this back to myself, might have some of the crushed nut shells trapped in the fuel distributor
Yes the in-tank ump did work although the wires were wrongly connected as positive earth it was working backwards.

Pete
1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 1978 For This Useful Post:
Old Dec 20th, 2020, 12:39   #17
Laird Scooby
Premier Member
 
Laird Scooby's Avatar
 

Last Online: Today 08:43
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lakenheath
Default

I think you've come up with a diagnosis there Pete, blockage between the fuel filter (possibly in the filter itself, worth changing for the sake of a few quid) and also possibly the pressure valve inside the fuel distributor is stuck. You could try a bit of percussive maintenance with the hammer in the area of the valve on the fuel dizzy, did you add the ATF to the tank?

You could also clamp off the return line to "dead-end" the fuel pressure so you get maximum pressure from the pump through the fuel dizzy and see if that forces out any more rust flakes (nut sheel particles) but don't do this with the injectors in the inlet manifold as you don't want any of those rust flakes getting inside the engine!
__________________
Cheers
Dave

Next Door to Top-Gun with a Honda CR-V & S Type Jag Volvo gone but not forgotten........
Laird Scooby is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Laird Scooby For This Useful Post:
Old Dec 20th, 2020, 12:52   #18
1978
Junior Member
 

Last Online: Apr 3rd, 2024 12:52
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: WISBECH
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
I think you've come up with a diagnosis there Pete, blockage between the fuel filter (possibly in the filter itself, worth changing for the sake of a few quid) and also possibly the pressure valve inside the fuel distributor is stuck. You could try a bit of percussive maintenance with the hammer in the area of the valve on the fuel dizzy, did you add the ATF to the tank?

You could also clamp off the return line to "dead-end" the fuel pressure so you get maximum pressure from the pump through the fuel dizzy and see if that forces out any more rust flakes (nut sheel particles) but don't do this with the injectors in the inlet manifold as you don't want any of those rust flakes getting inside the engine!
Believe it of not, yes ATF in the tank, but only about 100mls, wasn't sure of the ratio to fuel. I add Baby oil to some of the older cars fuel tanks when refilling!!
Next week I will get back onto the Volvo, We have by-passed the fuel filter in the engine bay for now. I'll let you know how I get on.
1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 1978 For This Useful Post:
Old Dec 23rd, 2020, 00:06   #19
1978
Junior Member
 

Last Online: Apr 3rd, 2024 12:52
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: WISBECH
Smile

I have good news, the Volvo runs now........What was wrong, well..............Many years ago, well 26 years to be exact I had a Peugeot 604 fitted with the same 2.7litre V6 I also had some running issues, turned out that the fuel I was using wasn't of a high enough octane and it suffered from lack of power, all the unburnt fuel started flooding the exhaust system until the muffler exploded and the car just died. I tried to get the car started without any joy, I removed the spark plugs to find them wet. I contacted the original owner who purchased the car new as he was a Peugeot Specialist to talk to him about the way the car was running and that I had only just bought the car less than a month ago from a different owner. The first thing he said to me, 'What fuel are you using'? 92 Octane I said, to which he replied, don't use that fuel, you have to use a minimum 96 Octane! He said that the lower quality fuel doesn't burn effectively and you end up with poor running and excess unburn fuel collecting in the exhaust pipes. He said change the spark plugs and use higher quality fuel, after that I never had any further problems. My mate borrowed the car for a weekend and put low octane fuel in the car, after he returned the car it wasn't running well at all and finally broken down, though it was trying to start it just wouldn't run. Eventually I asked my mate what fuel he had put in it. Low quality cheap octane!! Great I fitted new spark plugs and had better quality fuel before it would start again.
A bit long winded my story here but the gist of the matter was that I put new spark plugs into the Volvo and the engine started, revved up, idled, no fuel leaks from any of the outer lines or Fuel distributor. I just recalled all the starting problems I had with the other V6 and remembered what I had done to sort it.
Thanks again guys for your help on this.
1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 1978 For This Useful Post:
Old Mar 26th, 2021, 12:15   #20
1978
Junior Member
 

Last Online: Apr 3rd, 2024 12:52
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: WISBECH
Default

I haven't gone any further with the V6 and I am now about to free up the seized front calliper's, looks like the pistons have got rust around them.
Will keep you up dated and if I need any bits I am sure the guys on here will be able to help. I am sure the front calliper's are the same as the 244's?
Cheers Peter
1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:10.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.