Amazing Historic Amazon Rally Car in Germany

[slyearl]

I have no affiliation whatsoever with the sellers, but I thought everyone should see this... I came across this incredible Amazon rally car for sale in Germany near Hannover. Apparently the car belongs to well known ex-rally driver Claus Ellermann, who through Rauno Aaltonen purchased this car to do Historic rallying with his son. (it has FIA papers dating back to '62!). He then personally built the car from the shell up to his specifications. This is not an Amazon with nice foglamps and a racing paintjob, it's the real deal, like a works car all of the parts including the shell have been modified for sport use. This is one of THE best Amazons I've ever seen, it has incredible specifications and to boot is in almost concourse condition, I don't think it's likely we'll see a similar one better. Now, if only I can find out where one of those trees that grow money are planted! *sigh*

check it out:
http://www.classicdriver.de/uk/find/...dealerid=11002

[ClassicVolvoShop]

Ehh.. Maybe you should go check out how a 1958 really looks like (details etc.) .. I see no concourse condition - it looks like new paint, yes - but concourse???...

I daubt that this car is a "serious" project... B16/drum brakes for rally?..

If you do a translation of the text - it's full of BS... like "into perfect restoration" and other typical seller crap, with absolutely no knowledge of a 1958 Amazon.

Where do you see it has papers from 1962? It was bought and restored in 1999 - got FIA papers in 2000.

Someone did it for fun - but a B16 Amazon is absolutely no fun Rally car - regardless of red seat belts and recaro plastic.

Amazing Historic Rally Amazon?.. No way...

[TomG]

what are the blue straps on the doors about?

[ClassicVolvoShop]

The picnic blanket?...

[48pop]

Blue straps??

I'm guessing perspex windows, strap connected to bottom of glass and a pull on the strap raises the window ......just like old railway carriages....

All in the cause of weight reduction

[ClassicVolvoShop]

OK.. The more I think about it and watches the pictures of this car - the more I realise that this is close to a scam..

Is it wise to throw out such a hard accusation? Well, it may not create friends, but OK - here's my observations:

General observation:
A 1958 Amazon - is probably the most stupid Amazon to choose for Rally (or any form of sport) -driving..
Rear end/panel and boot is very weak and it wasn't untill arround later '62 models that the chassis was hugely made stronger arround suspension and rear panel.
A B16 (A or B - doesn't matter) engine and (original M4) gearbox are not a strong and reliable drivetrain. Weak transmission and low horsepower, weak propellar and rear end mount - for rally??
1958 brakes - are among the most difficult brakes to restore - cylinders are very special and the complete setup is not at all as later models.

In general - if one wanted to drive rally (or should we say, historic rally) - one would choose a later yearmodel Amazon, so that at least most drivetrain, suspension and brake parts are easy available.

Sum up: A 1958 Amazon is a weak car, it's a slow accelerating and slow braking car - it's a completely different construction, suspension, drivetrain, front and rear end - from later models, which are so much more easy available. Choosing a 1958 model for aggressive driving - well, is at the most close to stupid.

The "Historic Rally Amazon" - is it false and fraud?

Well, I would say that it's easy to read my opinion between the lines - so I wont state a direct/specific judgement - but here follows my observations - and mind: I haven't seen or read ANYTHING other than the add provides of info and pictures..
Most easy way is to go over each picture - from A to B - yes, it does make my post long - but it's enthusiastic!

Picture 1:



Wrong:
- wings/front/grill/lights/indicators are of later models

Here's a 1958:


Picture 2:


Wrong:
- where's the 1958 boot lock? - maybe this is why they put those "rally-straps" on the boot - because the car isn 't actually a 1958 with the very different rear panel?
- what's with that huge exhaust pipe? - does it correspond with the B16 engine? Well, it's taste I know - but "performance enhancement"?..

Here's a 1957 rear panel with boot lock (same in 1958 models):



Picture 9: (a little jump in the order, sorry)


- and the above 1957 lock/panel from inside:


Yes! - You could argue that the lock and corresponding panel was cleaned out in the name of "quick release" boot.. But then I say: Quick release boot? For what? What's in the boot when rally'ing? - and not the least: Why didn't they then do it to the hood/bonnet????? THAT would reason..

Pictures 3,4 and 5:

Well, not much to add - of course the wheels are later (1965-70) style, the mirrors are later, but OK let's give 'em some slack..

Pictures 6, 7 and 8:





Wrong: (or at least strange...)

- what's with the blue straps? A window-"winder"? Why are the stock winder then there? Not much weight lowering - but fancy looking, yes!
- upper door panels: Where's the extension of the dashboard cushion?
- dashboard looks to be from a 1965 or later.. (switches and panic-handle on right side, heater control DID move to the middle in very late 1958's)

Some real give aways:
- accelerator/speeder pedal is floormounted in a 1958
- prop.tunnel in a 1958 is narrow
- rubber moulds on doors where glued on in 1958 (not in a channel)
- on the 1958 model, there was a little tiny chrom mould on the B-pillar, see (next picture below):

A 1958 dashboard and note the accelerator/speeder pedal mount: (the spedometer in this picture is of later model)




- yes the chromed bit could have been removed, but the B-pillar is different from later models anyway..

Picture 10:



This is a real give away..

I'll just post a true 1958 engine compartment/bay:



And I'll only pin-point the total give aways:
- the spring/hinge-style of the bonnet/hood
- firewall - note the huge differences arround brake/clutch pedal box
- complete heater system and especially the air-intake..
Tons of other details, yes - but the 3 things above is not just a matter of a missing part or just a later part - it's structual differences..

Picture 11 and 12:


Just notice the very different cross member across the radiator..



I could go on with details here and there - but I'll jump to my conclusion:

This can not be a serious attempt to build an Amazon for rally.
It's fun! Yes, and there are lots of opportunities for next owner to build on and make it personal.

And whispered: I think it's a 1965/66 4 door that they builded out of all the left over parts in the garage - and for fun they tried to make it look older and rally like. A scam? Fraud? Maybe not - but seller's story is..

[Snowman]

What a great read, top bit of Volvo spotting there!

Although I rally a 140, we inevitably gang up with Amazon rallyists and I can confirm there are some spectacular cars out there competing in the UK but no one that I know of uses anything earlier than 1962 and certainly the only B16 users have PV's. For 'proper' ralling, the 2 door shell is always the preferred route too and virtually the first thing they do is move the fuel tank up into the boot.

Anyway, it looks nice and it's someones pride and joy.

[Derek UK]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehah! You tell em boy!

Fibreglass boot lid or maybe just all the inner frame removed. Probably disc brakes on the front as it now has a dual MC. At least the rear doors still have the opening quarter lights..............

Price on request - They probably have about Euros 30k on it, maybe quite a bit more. I don't think it would sell for half that here. Unless you were going to buy it and take it back to Germany to sell.........................

[ClassicVolvoShop]

Pjewww!!..

Thanks guys! - I admit that I was a little affraid to recieve some negative posts on my "negative" post...

Hey!!..

And WHAT's with that reflection:



Who's the photographer??... Is it??.. NO - it can't be??.. Really?? True??..

Is it Simon Cowell from Wildlife SOS on Animal Planet ??



He does drive and enjoys Volvo's!

[ClassicVolvoShop]

A few extra details:

The narrow prop-tunnel AND note the front seat mounts..

(It's a 1960 model in the picture)


I have manipulated the picture from the add a little - so that it's easier to see the seat mounts (which are clearly from the later '65 seats) and the too-wide prop-tunnel..

And another neerdy detail - that proves it's NOT a 1958 - see attached picture 2 - I have cropped it - notice the "rubber mould list" for the rubber mould on the firewall/cowl - here's how it should look like (all the way up to and incl. 1964 models) - It's NOT easy to find a picture showing this detail - but in pre 1965 models, the rubber list where glued on and secured by a few huge "clamps" bended over the rubber list...


Ohh...
And the funny details: (attached pic 3)
- the B18 badge on boot/trunk lid...
- and looking very closely - the rear lights are NOT the genuine all red ones - they are red-painted newer style ones!
(how? - the later 3 color glasses are screwed from outside - the all red 1958 ones are screwed from the inside with no visible screws)
Genuine 1959 rear lights..