Amazon: 1967 - P130 restoration in Norway.

[Army]

Originally Posted by AmazonViking

...
There is actually a local hot-zink bath treatment place 50Km from me so what I do when it all is welded up I would consider then. For now the zinc used would have to do. The product used now is called "Zinga" if any one would like to check it out https://www.zinga.eu
...

Zinga is a top class first rate product - I use it quite a lot on cars where I need to protect seams / joints that get spot welded in place.

It is a fantastic product

I think it is also the wrong product for your situation if you are planning to leave it in place. If you are using it as a stop gap - to stop more rust from forming - it is in my opinion a very expensive stop gap. A primer undercoat would have been cheaper and potentially easier to remove before proper painting.

The problem with Zinga for automotive body parts that will be painted in car paint is that it is as rough as a badger's arse. You are going to have to spray loads of filler over the top of the Zinga (after treating it with "something" {There are a few options that I'll not mention at this stage} to make the filler stick to the Zinga)

The Zinga is not necessarily a stable surface - it is a sacrificial rust eating surface that might need to be replenished by spraying more Zinga on top of old in the future.

I think you are much better off going for epoxy paints (once the welding is done)

#####

Hot galvanising would have been a really big mistake - that process would undoubtedly warp every part of the car making it very difficult to get it straight again - so I'm glad that's not happening...

...even Land Rover didn't hot galvanise thin body parts on their Series Land Rovers (even though everyone in the Land Rover world seems to have got the galvanising bug - I think they'd galvanise their grannies given half a chance) - Land Rover only ever galvanised thick metal...

[AmazonViking]

Originally Posted by Army

Zinga is a top class first rate product - I use it quite a lot on cars where I need to protect seams / joints that get spot welded in place.

It is a fantastic product

I think it is also the wrong product for your situation if you are planning to leave it in place. If you are using it as a stop gap - to stop more rust from forming - it is in my opinion a very expensive stop gap. A primer undercoat would have been cheaper and potentially easier to remove before proper painting.

The problem with Zinga for automotive body parts that will be painted in car paint is that it is as rough as a badger's arse. You are going to have to spray loads of filler over the top of the Zinga (after treating it with "something" {There are a few options that I'll not mention at this stage} to make the filler stick to the Zinga)

The Zinga is not necessarily a stable surface - it is a sacrificial rust eating surface that might need to be replenished by spraying more Zinga on top of old in the future.

I think you are much better off going for epoxy paints (once the welding is done)

#####

Hot galvanising would have been a really big mistake - that process would undoubtedly warp every part of the car making it very difficult to get it straight again - so I'm glad that's not happening...

...even Land Rover didn't hot galvanise thin body parts on their Series Land Rovers (even though everyone in the Land Rover world seems to have got the galvanising bug - I think they'd galvanise their grannies given half a chance) - Land Rover only ever galvanised thick metal...

Army;

I think you are analyzing this a little too much. As mentioned, I needed to seal the car before I got it back so it could be parked in the garage for X weeks/months so rust welding could be done. That was the purpose of this.

The car has been whipped clean to the bare bone and should not have any rust, paint or anything left on the whole body. I guess in some Chanels or tubes there might have been used the special product to seal these off, which naturally never would be completely removed and hence has trace of what ever those old timers used @ Volvo during those years. Other than that - there should be zip zero nada.

So the Zinc cover should stay uniform as sprayed and not sacrifice it self to anything - if not some where a bad spot weld has rust between the plates - where I seriously hope it would do its job.

If you think Zinga is a expensive solution - here is the full story:

The blaster company wanted to send the car to the paint shop for a complete seal with what they would normally do. They had for once a unit breaking down and was delayed which would ripple through until next week - aka this week.

The paint company said that the blast company had to finish their job and not expect them to be able to receive a blank pice of metal body to seal asap. They had projects they where working on (well payed insurance jobs) and could not see the need to use €1100 sealer all over the car. This was talking to them Friday.

The blast company did see the problem, they have had issues with one of the machines which caused delays so they had to work xtra hours overtime this weekend to finish my car. They stepped up and covered the car with Zinga so I could pick up the car tonight so their delay did not ripple through until today Monday where they had a industrial BIG project showing up which payed 2-3x what my little thing does/did...

Car has been picked up and I have to say that all in all I the final solution is something I can live with. We did not manage to get rid of all the fine sand - some sand showed up when transporting the car back to the workshop but luckily the Zinga sealer had cured. So I can vacuum it up next weekend and on top of it all the blaster company gave me a free spray can to cover my welding and if required sanding areas.

Anyhow, glad to have my baby back and now stage two on the rocked starts - the welding journey :-)

[Army]

Originally Posted by AmazonViking

Army;

I think you are analyzing this a little too much. As mentioned, I needed to seal the car before I got it back so it could be parked in the garage for X weeks/months so rust welding could be done. That was the purpose of this.

The car has been whipped clean to the bare bone and should not have any rust, paint or anything left on the whole body. I guess in some Chanels or tubes there might have been used the special product to seal these off, which naturally never would be completely removed and hence has trace of what ever those old timers used @ Volvo during those years. Other than that - there should be zip zero nada.

So the Zinc cover should stay uniform as sprayed and not sacrifice it self to anything - if not some where a bad spot weld has rust between the plates - where I seriously hope it would do its job.

If you think Zinga is a expensive solution - here is the full story:

The blaster company wanted to send the car to the paint shop for a complete seal with what they would normally do. They had for once a unit breaking down and was delayed which would ripple through until next week - aka this week.

The paint company said that the blast company had to finish their job and not expect them to be able to receive a blank pice of metal body to seal asap. They had projects they where working on (well payed insurance jobs) and could not see the need to use €1100 sealer all over the car. This was talking to them Friday.

The blast company did see the problem, they have had issues with one of the machines which caused delays so they had to work xtra hours overtime this weekend to finish my car. They stepped up and covered the car with Zinga so I could pick up the car tonight so their delay did not ripple through until today Monday where they had a industrial BIG project showing up which payed 2-3x what my little thing does/did...

Car has been picked up and I have to say that all in all I the final solution is something I can live with. We did not manage to get rid of all the fine sand - some sand showed up when transporting the car back to the workshop but luckily the Zinga sealer had cured. So I can vacuum it up next weekend and on top of it all the blaster company gave me a free spray can to cover my welding and if required sanding areas.

Anyhow, glad to have my baby back and now stage two on the rocked starts - the welding journey :-)

...

Let me make one thing clear - it is your car - you do what ever you like!

All I'm saying is that I like Zinga - I know Zinga - and I don't think it is the correct product for putting all over a car which is then going to be painted.

If you are planning to remove the Zinga and just use it as a temporary stop gap (I think it is a waste of a good product!) but most certainly the best thing for an automotive painted finish. Other products would have been easier to remove than Zinga. This could turn into a bit of a headache for the welders and the painters.

[AmazonViking]

Originally Posted by Army

Let me make one thing clear - it is your car - you do what ever you like!

All I'm saying is that I like Zinga - I know Zinga - and I don't think it is the correct product for putting all over a car which is then going to be painted.

If you are planning to remove the Zinga and just use it as a temporary stop gap (I think it is a waste of a good product!) but most certainly the best thing for an automotive painted finish. Other products would have been easier to remove than Zinga. This could turn into a bit of a headache for the welders and the painters.

Army;

I think it would be fine ;-) I’m not sure why the paint shop should remove the Zinga when they could leave it and spray their sealer or filler on top og the Zinga? Paint shop was the one pushing for this solution so I hope they kbow what they are doing. It would anyhow be their problem :-)

Here is a case study of a Range Rover which has gone through the exact same treatment as my Amazon http://www.zinga-uk.com/case-studies...rover-bodywork

Thx for your input :-)

[Army]

Originally Posted by AmazonViking

Army;

I think it would be fine ;-) I’m not sure why the paint shop should remove the Zinga when they could leave it and spray their sealer or filler on top og the Zinga? Paint shop was the one pushing for this solution so I hope they kbow what they are doing. It would anyhow be their problem :-)

Here is a case study of a Range Rover which has gone through the exact same treatment as my Amazon http://www.zinga-uk.com/case-studies...rover-bodywork

Thx for your input :-)

I'm interested to see how this works out - I think you'll be surprised to see how quickly "their problem" turns into "your problem"!

I'm not brave enough to paint over Zinga

Like I said it is a great product - fantastic on fire escape stairs and grain silos - I would not use it like you / your paint shop is planning. But I'm here to learn - not to argue (!) - if you're happy to post back in five years to say how the layers stayed stuck to the metal I for one will appreciate it...

[AmazonViking]

Originally Posted by Army

I'm interested to see how this works out - I think you'll be surprised to see how quickly "their problem" turns into "your problem"!

I'm not brave enough to paint over Zinga

Like I said it is a great product - fantastic on fire escape stairs and grain silos - I would not use it like you / your paint shop is planning. But I'm here to learn - not to argue (!) - if you're happy to post back in five years to say how the layers stayed stuck to the metal I for one will appreciate it...

Painthop manager is dropping by the garage at Friday to look at the car and I would post back what he’s saying.

In the mean time I guess a email to the UK dealership of Zinga which has the Range Rover story on their web could be done.

The Zinga layer is not exactly 2-300um thick, it’s a thin coat and not comparable of smearing a light pole or farmer gear with Zinga.

I for sure post back for those interested.

EDIT: I have contacted the UK dealership of Zinga and refered to this thread and would feed back if I receive a feedback.

[Army]

[THREADJACK]

Well just in case the good folks at Zinga are reading this I'll ask the following

1) Zinga specifies a Swedish sand blasting standard prior to application - in the case of sheet metal work you'll need to use some light media such as speedblast to stop warping.

What does Zinga recommend to do about the amount of dust left behind on sheet metal work?

(I've been applying brake cleaner and panel wipes)

2) After spraying Zinga I find the finished surface to be rather powdery. (I'm using Zinga in a spray can)

I don't think this makes for a suitable surface to directly spray on top - what's the recommendation to prepare a sprayed Zinga surface for further layers of paint?

3) The thickness of Zinga on top of bare metal seems to me to be crucial as it seems to me to be a fairly fragile coating - certainly no where near as tough as (2K) Urethane top coats - I imagine too thick a layer will allow for too much movement if you paint tougher not so flexible layer of automotive paint on top.

4) Zinga produces industrial top coating systems that do not seem to be available to DIY / small time folks - what's a good easy to obtain equivalent intermediate coating that Zinga feels is suitable?

[THREADJACK]

[AmazonViking]

Guess Zinga could not be bothered to reply to me so I'm just started the repair part.

A short session today where I started removing the rusty support beams and cross bar. This has obvious been patched earlier by some one and sections of it looked solid but then others was rotted completely


The spot welds was removed all over and this part was done in no time.



After removal this was the view :




I was then considering what to do. When looking at the fat support beam I did see that the back section had spot welds on its side and checking inside the car I figured these was the support for the seat. There was no rust externally so I decided to start by removing the section in front and up the the knee.



Removing this was a PITA since this section was under the support for the gearbox. Long story short - I cut sections of the floor away to get this section out.

[AmazonViking]

In the process the car was at its rotisserie being flipped 90 deg so I could easily work on these sections. Doing so I got kind of scared when I noticed that the front section of the support bars cut kind of sagged together a little bit. Please note that I did not use the large angle grinder on this section as on the other end of the removed part. In this case I used a air driven mini saw so the removed material was much less. Even so - the cut pushed together a little bit but not much.




I was afraid of any warp so I rotated the car back to horisontal and put some jacks under the rear end of the body in case there supposed to be any weakness.

The section was removed while the car was in this position and this is what I found :



The section left was this where I have marked the spot welds on the outside. There was no external sines of rust.


And looking in to this area after removal of the crappy part this is the view



As shown, there is bracing inside to support the seat bolt (front) and this is the main reason for leaving this in place. I have checked after marked channels/support and non seems to have this inner bracing welded in place so there would be some heavy work in place if this section should be removed.

Since I'm a novice in this and I almost ****ed my pants when I saw the front cut sag a little after the cut - here are som questions to you experts :

1-Would you remove the last section of the support section/beam when looking at the last picture in this post? I'm not sure if what I see is rust or some form of channel treatment from the old days. It would save me a lot of work if I leave it in place but if I remove it - I'm 100% sure that there is no "cancer" left...

2-Should the car have any form of support welded some where when doing this work ? In case where ? I can't see welding a X in the doors would help since the support beam starts from the motor room and its cut just before it straighten out and start supporting the floor. A X from top of the left door to the bottom of the right door (and opposite) - would I guess not do any thing either ?

Any thoughts would be appreciated since I now don't dear to cut out any more until these sections are fixed. The side channels are flawless and so is the window frame, roof etc so there should be no weakness in these areas. The only bad part is the floor panels - which would be changed after the support beams has been changed.