Sat Nav Fault - Help Needed

[GenericVolvoDriver]

Originally Posted by SwissXC90

Well done, you posted exactly the right information

2.1 Circuit Check: HDD NG means No Good (or Not Good)
3.7 HDD Information: Do NOT select anything here as your hard disc is failing. You may end up in a non-recoverable state if you select anything
4.3 Error Status (1/6) is absolutely confirming a hard drive failure. The ATA controller is logging init errors.
And the other screen is showing HDD read errrors.

So your HDD is definitely bad.

I do not know for certain, but I believe the nav coding is held in flash memory, and not on the HDD
This means there is a good chance that you can fix your nav by fitting an HDD from a donor nav of the same part number

You cannot just fit a 2nd hand nav unit is the nav unit is coded to the car.

But swapping out the HDD from a donor nav could very likely work.

Of course, you will have whatever maps are fitted to the donor nav. But you can upgrade them later.

I totally agree. From what I've been reading the nav code is in flash as is the anti-theft coding to the vehicle.

1) find a donor hdd from a MMM+ and try that hdd in your unit.

2) insert a blank hdd/ssd and try running the 3.7 HDD information d) HDD update Execute option. That may rebuild the hdd... You have nothing to lose from trying that. Worst case it fails due to the partitions not being there. I'm hoping when you run the map update the nav doesn't really have a concept of a file system during the update, and rather copies byte by byte like dd in unix over to the hdd. If my theory is correct, re-running the update will rebuild the blank hdd.

[Brilliant Eclipse]

Thanks very much SwissXC90 and GenericVolvoDriver.

Is it possible to recover this situation by fitting a brand new blank HDD (i.e. one I buy from Amazon or a computer shop)? This would be blank and then, I presume, need some level of initialisation / formatting. Is this possible without access to VIDA? This would be a relatively cheap option.

Using the HDD from a donor unit - the only donor units I can find are on eBay and appear to cost quite a bit more than the cost of a blank HDD although I appreciate that this method may be simpler as once the HDD Is installed, there will be no need for any reprogramming (except map updates).

[GenericVolvoDriver]

Originally Posted by Brilliant Eclipse

Thanks very much SwissXC90 and GenericVolvoDriver.

Is it possible to recover this situation by fitting a brand new blank HDD (i.e. one I buy from Amazon or a computer shop)? This would be blank and then, I presume, need some level of initialisation / formatting. Is this possible without access to VIDA? This would be a relatively cheap option.

Using the HDD from a donor unit - the only donor units I can find are on eBay and appear to cost quite a bit more than the cost of a blank HDD although I appreciate that this method may be simpler as once the HDD Is installed, there will be no need for any reprogramming (except map updates).

You'd be doing a great service to the community! I'm hoping the diagnostic menu "3.7 HDD information d) HDD update Execute" causes the system to re-image the hard drive. Here is an order of things to try based on their cost and simplicity:

1) find a PATA 2.5" automotive mechanical drive / industrial SSD drive that has good compatibility with automotive navigation systems (ex: a drive with a history of working on BMW CIC SSD conversions)
2) install it into the MMM+ unit
3) go into diagnostic menu and initiate a HDD update
4) hopefully the MMM+ begins the process of re-imaging the hard drive


5) if 4 does not work, if someone gave you an image of a working MMM+ hard drive you could use a computer to do a byte-by-byte copy of the hard drive image to the new hard drive
6) if 5 does not work, you could try a used MMM+ unit's hard drive in your working MMM+ unit and see if it works. This works as the flash storage in your MMM+ holds the data that ties it to your vehicle (you can't simply swap the used, working MMM+ for your broken MMM+).


VIDA has very limited statnav information. They only list one "install software" as the last step of installing replacement of a MMM+ unit. We have no idea what state a "blank" MMM+ unit arrives in (ex: is the hard drive blank, or contain some sort of map data). The "install software" step is likely what locks the blank MMM+ unit to your vehicle (by programming the flash in the MMM+ and updating the CEM to the new MMM+ unit).


Given enough time (and some newly released reverse engineering tools) we may be able to understand how the HDD updating works. Someday, the hard drives in our MMM+ units will fail like yours.
On the Toyota Camry and JRL forms (search "loading.kwi") people have been able to reverse engineer and modify their firmware to enable entering coordinates while the vehicle is in motion.

I've been debating if I image the HDD's in my XC90 and XC60 while they're still working to make my life easier when that inevitable failure day comes.

[GenericVolvoDriver]

This thread has good info on SATA M.2 to 2.5" PATA converters that emulate old mechanical hard drives: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1426773

You can also try a CompactFlash to 2.5" PATA IDE converter.

[Brilliant Eclipse]

Diagnosis has progressed.

Diagnosis
I believe that the 'clicking' sound I referred to in my original email is definitely coming from the HDD and that the Sat Nav boots from an internal ROM.

The above comments are based on:
- I removed the HDD from the Sat Nav unit and reinstalled the unit in the car. The DVD drive span up but there was no clicking sound.
- The Sat Nav screen rose from the dash board and presented me with the expected options of Normal or Advanced modes.

HDD
The attached photo is of the sticker on the HDD.

Next Steps
I will order a new HDD and let you know when it has arrived. QUESTION: Does it need to be the EXACT same model or are there a range of models that will work? The exact one seems to be difficult to find and rather expensive. Would any of the linked items below be suitable?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toshiba-M...MAAOSwEbxck8By

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toshiba-M...gAAOSwsupbxxXX

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toshiba-4...MAAOSwtNlcse~m

[SwissXC90]

Toshiba MK4050GAC for sale online for less than $50 USD

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bran...667359528.html

[SwissXC90]

The HDD is a model MK4050GAC

Specifications:
https://www.cnet.com/products/toshib...ta-100-series/

And here:
http://www.testhdd.com/Toshiba-MK405...-100-7891.html

I found the PDF spec sheet for the drive, I have grabbed a copy. It's an automotive grade drive, designed to handle extreme temperatures of -30°C to +85°C, and extreme vibration and shock, and altitude (up to 5500 masl)

When replacing it, it is a gamble as to what works (due to the drivers for the HDD) and you also need to ensure you use automotive grade HDDs.

[SwissXC90]

Compare the MK4025GAS with the MK4050GAS:

4025 cannot withstand the same shock as the 4050: 190G vs 300G shock.

Also, the 4025 is rated for +5°C to +55°C, the 4050 is rated for -30°C to +85°C

So you see looking purely at the shock handling capabilities, the 4025 is nowhere near as robust as the 4050.
And it certainly cannot handle the same temperature range as the 4050.
I myself have started by car at -15°C, and expected the nav to work, and it has, flawlessly.
If a 4025 was fitted, it likely would not work at -15°C, being 20°C lower than it's rated minimum operating temperature.

Anything automotive grade must handle high shock and vibration, and extreme temperatures.

I would NOT recommend you fit a 4025 HDD.

[SwissXC90]

And honestly, $36 USD for a replacement brand new harddrive is dirt cheap and totally worth the gamble to get it going.

You WILL have the risk of loading software onto it.... we cannot say what will happen, we've never tried....

[Brilliant Eclipse]

Hi SwissXC90,

Thanks for the info. Tens of dollars / pounds for the HDD is absolutely fine. The only ones I had been able to find previously were hundreds of pounds/dollars.

What about the 3rd link I included? It is a 4050GAC and the only difference I can see between it and the one I have is that the one in the link is HDD2G19 whereas the one I have is HDD2G16. I don’t quite understand the difference. The benefit of this one is that it is in Europe and will get to me faster.