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LPG on the yamaha V8 engine - XC90

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Old Apr 16th, 2012, 10:55   #1
converse320
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Default LPG on the yamaha V8 engine - XC90

Does anyone have positive experience of using LPG on the Yamaha V8 engine, as fitted to the 4.4 V8 XC90, and I believe the S80? I've just bought an XC90 with this engine.

I'm really looking for someone who has done 30k miles plus without problems with valves or valve seating. I have spoken to some of the bigger name suppliers, and none have direct experience. But it seems such an obvious conversion, I would have thought someone would have done it. I'm happy to spend the money, but not if I'll end up with big bills to fix the head.

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Old Apr 16th, 2012, 19:02   #2
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Default Lpg

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Originally Posted by converse320 View Post
Does anyone have positive experience of using LPG on the Yamaha V8 engine, as fitted to the 4.4 V8 XC90, and I believe the S80? I've just bought an XC90 with this engine.

I'm really looking for someone who has done 30k miles plus without problems with valves or valve seating. I have spoken to some of the bigger name suppliers, and none have direct experience. But it seems such an obvious conversion, I would have thought someone would have done it. I'm happy to spend the money, but not if I'll end up with big bills to fix the head.

Andrew H.
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Old Apr 17th, 2012, 11:49   #3
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Will send you details via email later today.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 21:08   #4
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Hi, new to this forum but here goes, I've just done the same and bought an xc90 4.4. On a 07 plate 44k, so far there appears to be a few problems in converting to LPG first one being the tank under the boot, you will probably only get a 80l tank filling to 60l giving a range of approximately 180 miles. Next as you rightly say not many people have done this and there is a question wether or not the valve seats are going to be affected by wear, I have spoken to Prins over this and he told me that he hadn't personally fitted one to this engine but the Japanese engines seam to work closer to the heat limits of the valve seats but if you fit flash lube there shouldn't be a problem. The car is going in to be looked at on Saturday, if you find out anything more please post it as it might help me to, I will let you know how I get on
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 21:20   #5
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Would you just check with them that the "Heat limits of the valve seats are what causes the problems with the Jap engines or if there is something more complicated than that"??

Also worth asking them if they know how flashlube stops the valve/seat from wearing/burning. Micro welding is what produces VSR
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 21:38   #6
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Will ask them on Sat, but in the mean time do you have any more info that might help me to decide wether or not it's a good or bad idea, Thanks
I was chatting on the phone to a company in the Netherlands today that use a direct liquid injection system that I was interested in, as there is some talk of introducing the fuel in this way lowers the temperature, but this is not quite right, it is used to keep direct fuel injected engine injectors cool (Audi vw fsi) and so on, so as the conversation went on, it was this company as well as the chap from Prins that suggested using flash lube as he said that petrol has components with in it to protect the valves and LPG doesn't . Flash lube is supposed to do the job by coating the valves seats much like lead did in leaded fuel.

Last edited by Welder; May 3rd, 2012 at 22:03. Reason: Update
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Old May 4th, 2012, 23:03   #7
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Flashlube does help with VSR but does not cure it in all cases.

The liquid injection does have some advantages and it should help with cooling the cylinders and valves but I don't think this will help much with engines that suffer from VSR. The early liquid injection systems had lots of problems and i suspect that the latest systems are also likely to suffer with fuel pump failure. I'm going to keep staying with vapour systems for quite some time yet but am watching the progress with the Liquid systems.

There are a number of factors that can cause VSR. Have a read of this link and it does cover most of the issues and is not a million miles of teh mark. I don't normaly agree with this guy but what he done here s not far off just with a couple of things missed off
http://www.ibadesign.info/LPG/VSR.pdf
What he says about the valve acting as a hammer is a chunk of where the problem lies but he has missed off a factor that is the make or break.

Lean burning is a well know problem amongest installers in the know. UKLPG have a list of engines that suffer with VSR on LPG. The problem with the list is that most of the info comes from two system suppliers, one has very poor fuel control and in the early days major injector failure and the other does have slight issues that with some engines will cause VSR due to leaning. A lot the problems will also come down poor installation. A good example is the 4.7 V8 jeep is on the list. There are 1000's of these converted with the common good systems and they are perfectly fine without any valve care.

I do not claim to fully understand VSR but I have a good idea and the reasons do vary from one engine to another.



The answer to the volvo 4.4 v8 is I do not think they will be a problem but the one I did I fitted with a valve saver system as I could not get enough data on the materials used in the engine and the details of the valve events.

I would keep to top quality parts and fit a valve saver system as insurance.

Damage caused by lean burning will not be resolved by any valve care products
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Old May 5th, 2012, 00:13   #8
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i have lpg fitted to my discovery 3. took a long time to take the plunge as it has soft valve seats - after 60k reports of loss of seals.

i think a lot is as stated to do with poor mixture - too lean most often. This often causes the check light (MIL) to come on. I had it with a previous D3 that i converted. I have now got the latest system that is connected to the OBDII and reads the adaptation setting so the LPG computer readjusts the mixture before the MIL comes on. Not had 1 MIL light since fitting it.
I also chose the option with the system i have to run the petrol injectors together with the gas one. petrol is only open for a millisecond or so - but this adds petrol all the time - gives the petrol pump to do keeps the injectors and petrol side working - and i hope protects the valves.
to be sure i also added a v-lube system that adds a lubricant via the LPG low pressure line. this is then mixed with gas and added via the gas injector. much more accurate than the flashlube

So far so good - but i would say its well worth getting the car set up on a rolling road. i find there are still spots in the LPG map that are out and give the car too much or too little gas. it takes a good installer some time on the road to modify the map to ensure its 100% - but well worth it

One other issue with the xc90 v8 is the high fuel pressure warning - this needs an emulator to trick the ecu that all is ok. without it the check light can come on (and will) and also from time to time the ecu will need resetting

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Old May 6th, 2012, 14:04   #9
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Thank you CLassicwede and hids4u, it's not often you can chat with people that have an informed and intelligent view on this subject, all to often people post hearsay and focus on problems but loose sight of the fact most if not all of these can be overcome, taking me on to the lean burning of LPG , or rather the control of the LPG that hids4u has chated about, in both of your views which one of the manufactures have the best control of the fuel and why?
P.S. CLassicwede that link was really good!!!!

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Old May 6th, 2012, 20:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hids4u View Post
i have lpg fitted to my discovery 3. took a long time to take the plunge as it has soft valve seats - after 60k reports of loss of seals.

i think a lot is as stated to do with poor mixture - too lean most often. This often causes the check light (MIL) to come on. I had it with a previous D3 that i converted. I have now got the latest system that is connected to the OBDII and reads the adaptation setting so the LPG computer readjusts the mixture before the MIL comes on. Not had 1 MIL light since fitting it.
I also chose the option with the system i have to run the petrol injectors together with the gas one. petrol is only open for a millisecond or so - but this adds petrol all the time - gives the petrol pump to do keeps the injectors and petrol side working - and i hope protects the valves.
to be sure i also added a v-lube system that adds a lubricant via the LPG low pressure line. this is then mixed with gas and added via the gas injector. much more accurate than the flashlube

So far so good - but i would say its well worth getting the car set up on a rolling road. i find there are still spots in the LPG map that are out and give the car too much or too little gas. it takes a good installer some time on the road to modify the map to ensure its 100% - but well worth it

One other issue with the xc90 v8 is the high fuel pressure warning - this needs an emulator to trick the ecu that all is ok. without it the check light can come on (and will) and also from time to time the ecu will need resetting

r
ian
The ford engine fitted to the land rover is well know for VSR problems. There are uprated heads available for them and that does help.

We actualy remap the petrol ecu as the petrol map is part of the problem on the range rover sport especialy.

The fuel pressure issue will not be solved with an emaulator.
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