Juddering in 1st/reverse driving me nuts!!

AllHailKingVolvo · Feb 28th, 2019, 12:28

Hi all,
I've been going through my Torslanda gradually since I bought it, replacing a few bits and bobs and sorting niggles.

So far it has had:

New rear UJ
New rear main seal
New torque rod bushes
New radial arm bushes

However it STILL has an infuriating judder, especially when pulling away in first up an incline, and massively so when reversing up a hill.

In reverse it judders until around 10mph, then smooths out but with an odd cracking/straining noise. It's hard to describe...I really need to sort it though as it's doing my head in!

I have a new gearbox mount ready to fit and a pair of engine mounts on the way, but beyond that I'm out of ideas.

When the rear main seal was done, the garage inspected the clutch and said it looked okay, there was no noticeable oil ingress past the flywheel onto the clutch apparently.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Clifford Pope · Feb 28th, 2019, 18:59

Almost certainly its the rear reaction arm bushes. (4 bushes, one each end of the two short rods that locate the back axle and stop it twisting under torque)

The bushes don't normally last that long if the standard kind, and if worn the axle twists about under severe torque and the diff nose piece bangs on the bump stop. It's like the axle tramp you see when a heavy lorry tries to start on a steep hill.

They're not that difficult to replace, and at least you can just unbolt them and do it on a bench. A handy tip is to keep a spare pair ready-bushed so you can just swap them over and repair at leisure.

Nicholas Lewin · Feb 28th, 2019, 21:40

AHKV

I suspect that Clifford is right...but just in case he isn't...come back to me

My car now drives as smooth as you like. It didn't for nearly 3 years despite all manner of interventions. It was the final act that sorted out once and for all the juddering...

Keep us posted

Nick

AllHailKingVolvo · Mar 1st, 2019, 00:57

Thanks guys, the reaction arm bushes (or torque rod bushes as they were listed as by Volvo, although I've always referred to them as reaction arm/rod bushes) have been changed by Volvo as of last week, as have the radial arm bushes. The rear end of the car is now lovely and smooth when moving, but the judder is still there...in fact, worse than ever now the rear end is nice and tight and not absorbing any of the vibration. I was sure the reaction arm bushes would solve it, but alas not.

Nick, I'd love to know what sorted yours!

dingov70 · Mar 1st, 2019, 06:42

Have you checked engine mountings & gearbox mountings ??????

open bonnet & get assistant to try and drive car with handbrake on while you watch for movement of engine , the mounting does not have to be broken , but oil on rubber can make it mushy & stops doing it's intended job .

IF these are stuffed they can also give you the same shudder and make sure gearbox is bolted tight to the engine ! . Had one years ago where clutch was failing to release , customer was told it required clutch & quite possibly a new gearbox due to damage . tightened ten bolts , job sorted

Clifford Pope · Mar 1st, 2019, 07:56

Sorry!
Yes, Dingov70's probably right. With soft mountings the engine/gearbox can thrash around and hit things. You've had the lump strained on its mountings twice recently - might have been the final straw.

AllHailKingVolvo · Mar 1st, 2019, 08:39

Thanks all! I have a new gearbox mount at home and two engine mounts on the way so hopefully I can eliminate that aspect asap. My local Volvo garage have got it in on Monday for a diagnostic, their service manager (an older chap who has extensive experience with 2/7/900 cars) test drove it yesterday and said he suspects that it's clutch damper springs that have failed, but also said there was a possibility of the front UJ being partially seized/binding or a broken guibo disc (mine has one despite being manual rather than auto, not sure if this is standard or not-I've only come across them on autos previously), due to the juddering and creaking being worse in reverse than in first.

It's been a process of elimination, the rear end is sorted now, the engine runs beautifully so it has to be mounts, clutch, UJ/guibo or (at the absolute outside) gearbox.

It's frustrating as the car is such a peach, the body and interior are exceptional and the engine is the best B200F out of the four I've owned by a mile, I'm sure the garage who owned it prior to me (it was a courtesy car for 18yrs) tweaked it and upgraded the cam, as it's a different world performance wise to any other 200F I've owned or driven. I'm determined to get to the bottom of the juddering as I really want this to be a long term car.

Nicholas Lewin · Mar 3rd, 2019, 10:34

AHKVolvo - in the end mine was an incorrectly installed clutch (by a local Volvo specialist!! - not going back there again!) It seems that the clutch needs a specific Volvo tool when being installed to ensure correct alignment

I went thru' all manner of rear suspension suspects, the whole of the prop and even the gearbox and in the end it turned out to be the clutch. Same as yours in that it was only in first or reverse. Once on the move, the car was fine (except when changing down and using the clutch/gearbox partly as a brake (if you are with me) - then too you could feel a tremble thru' the car)

Keep us posted - be interested to know!

AllHailKingVolvo · Mar 3rd, 2019, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholas Lewin

AHKVolvo - in the end mine was an incorrectly installed clutch (by a local Volvo specialist!! - not going back there again!) It seems that the clutch needs a specific Volvo tool when being installed to ensure correct alignment

I went thru' all manner of rear suspension suspects, the whole of the prop and even the gearbox and in the end it turned out to be the clutch. Same as yours in that it was only in first or reverse. Once on the move, the car was fine (except when changing down and using the clutch/gearbox partly as a brake (if you are with me) - then too you could feel a tremble thru' the car)

Keep us posted - be interested to know!

That is VERY interesting! It's going to Volvo tomorrow for a proper diagnostic, I want it sorted once and for all. I really hope it's an adjustment/reinstallation rather than parts replacement required, but whatever will be will be. It's such a lovely car and I just want it sorted.

AllHailKingVolvo · Mar 5th, 2019, 09:31

Well, Volvo are insistent that it's time for a new clutch. They stated that the oil leak from the rear main (now fixed) has glazed the friction plate, it has been improved by Volvo themselves heating the clutch to burn off the deposits, but it's still not right. Added to this, the juddering/banging about has broken an exhaust mounting somewhere so now the exhaust is bashing against the floor of the car on engine braking, which is also what's been making the extra noise in reverse due to the engine moving on the mounts when torque is being applied in the opposite direction.

I'm going to get the full clutch kit (with fork, all bearings etc) fitted, along with the engine and gearbox mounts that I have already, and the broken exhaust mount sorted...hopefully that will sort it once and for all.

Feb 28th, 2019, 12:28	#1
AllHailKingVolvo Ye olde Volvii galore! Last Online: Dec 18th, 2023 11:23 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Sherborne	Juddering in 1st/reverse driving me nuts!! Hi all, I've been going through my Torslanda gradually since I bought it, replacing a few bits and bobs and sorting niggles. So far it has had: New rear UJ New rear main seal New torque rod bushes New radial arm bushes However it STILL has an infuriating judder, especially when pulling away in first up an incline, and massively so when reversing up a hill. In reverse it judders until around 10mph, then smooths out but with an odd cracking/straining noise. It's hard to describe...I really need to sort it though as it's doing my head in! I have a new gearbox mount ready to fit and a pair of engine mounts on the way, but beyond that I'm out of ideas. When the rear main seal was done, the garage inspected the clutch and said it looked okay, there was no noticeable oil ingress past the flywheel onto the clutch apparently. Does anyone have any ideas? __________________ Barges of Distinction: '96 945 SE LPT M90 '95 945 GLE D24TIC M90 ‘88 745 GL B200E M47

Mar 1st, 2019, 00:57	#4
AllHailKingVolvo Ye olde Volvii galore! Last Online: Dec 18th, 2023 11:23 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Sherborne	Thanks guys, the reaction arm bushes (or torque rod bushes as they were listed as by Volvo, although I've always referred to them as reaction arm/rod bushes) have been changed by Volvo as of last week, as have the radial arm bushes. The rear end of the car is now lovely and smooth when moving, but the judder is still there...in fact, worse than ever now the rear end is nice and tight and not absorbing any of the vibration. I was sure the reaction arm bushes would solve it, but alas not. Nick, I'd love to know what sorted yours! __________________ Barges of Distinction: '96 945 SE LPT M90 '95 945 GLE D24TIC M90 ‘88 745 GL B200E M47

Mar 1st, 2019, 06:42	#5
dingov70 Master Member Last Online: Yesterday 06:42 Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Blackpool	Have you checked engine mountings & gearbox mountings ?????? open bonnet & get assistant to try and drive car with handbrake on while you watch for movement of engine , the mounting does not have to be broken , but oil on rubber can make it mushy & stops doing it's intended job . IF these are stuffed they can also give you the same shudder and make sure gearbox is bolted tight to the engine ! . Had one years ago where clutch was failing to release , customer was told it required clutch & quite possibly a new gearbox due to damage . tightened ten bolts , job sorted __________________ To stupidity & beyond

Mar 1st, 2019, 08:39	#7
AllHailKingVolvo Ye olde Volvii galore! Last Online: Dec 18th, 2023 11:23 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Sherborne	Thanks all! I have a new gearbox mount at home and two engine mounts on the way so hopefully I can eliminate that aspect asap. My local Volvo garage have got it in on Monday for a diagnostic, their service manager (an older chap who has extensive experience with 2/7/900 cars) test drove it yesterday and said he suspects that it's clutch damper springs that have failed, but also said there was a possibility of the front UJ being partially seized/binding or a broken guibo disc (mine has one despite being manual rather than auto, not sure if this is standard or not-I've only come across them on autos previously), due to the juddering and creaking being worse in reverse than in first. It's been a process of elimination, the rear end is sorted now, the engine runs beautifully so it has to be mounts, clutch, UJ/guibo or (at the absolute outside) gearbox. It's frustrating as the car is such a peach, the body and interior are exceptional and the engine is the best B200F out of the four I've owned by a mile, I'm sure the garage who owned it prior to me (it was a courtesy car for 18yrs) tweaked it and upgraded the cam, as it's a different world performance wise to any other 200F I've owned or driven. I'm determined to get to the bottom of the juddering as I really want this to be a long term car. __________________ Barges of Distinction: '96 945 SE LPT M90 '95 945 GLE D24TIC M90 ‘88 745 GL B200E M47

Mar 5th, 2019, 09:31	#10
AllHailKingVolvo Ye olde Volvii galore! Last Online: Dec 18th, 2023 11:23 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Sherborne	Well, Volvo are insistent that it's time for a new clutch. They stated that the oil leak from the rear main (now fixed) has glazed the friction plate, it has been improved by Volvo themselves heating the clutch to burn off the deposits, but it's still not right. Added to this, the juddering/banging about has broken an exhaust mounting somewhere so now the exhaust is bashing against the floor of the car on engine braking, which is also what's been making the extra noise in reverse due to the engine moving on the mounts when torque is being applied in the opposite direction. I'm going to get the full clutch kit (with fork, all bearings etc) fitted, along with the engine and gearbox mounts that I have already, and the broken exhaust mount sorted...hopefully that will sort it once and for all. __________________ Barges of Distinction: '96 945 SE LPT M90 '95 945 GLE D24TIC M90 ‘88 745 GL B200E M47

Feb 28th, 2019, 18:59	#2
Clifford Pope Not an expert but ... Last Online: Yesterday 17:49 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boncath	Almost certainly its the rear reaction arm bushes. (4 bushes, one each end of the two short rods that locate the back axle and stop it twisting under torque) The bushes don't normally last that long if the standard kind, and if worn the axle twists about under severe torque and the diff nose piece bangs on the bump stop. It's like the axle tramp you see when a heavy lorry tries to start on a steep hill. They're not that difficult to replace, and at least you can just unbolt them and do it on a bench. A handy tip is to keep a spare pair ready-bushed so you can just swap them over and repair at leisure.

Feb 28th, 2019, 21:40	#3
Nicholas Lewin newish member Last Online: Nov 7th, 2020 23:35 Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: London	AHKV I suspect that Clifford is right...but just in case he isn't...come back to me My car now drives as smooth as you like. It didn't for nearly 3 years despite all manner of interventions. It was the final act that sorted out once and for all the juddering... Keep us posted Nick

Mar 1st, 2019, 07:56	#6
Clifford Pope Not an expert but ... Last Online: Yesterday 17:49 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boncath	Sorry! Yes, Dingov70's probably right. With soft mountings the engine/gearbox can thrash around and hit things. You've had the lump strained on its mountings twice recently - might have been the final straw.

Mar 3rd, 2019, 10:34	#8
Nicholas Lewin newish member Last Online: Nov 7th, 2020 23:35 Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: London	AHKVolvo - in the end mine was an incorrectly installed clutch (by a local Volvo specialist!! - not going back there again!) It seems that the clutch needs a specific Volvo tool when being installed to ensure correct alignment I went thru' all manner of rear suspension suspects, the whole of the prop and even the gearbox and in the end it turned out to be the clutch. Same as yours in that it was only in first or reverse. Once on the move, the car was fine (except when changing down and using the clutch/gearbox partly as a brake (if you are with me) - then too you could feel a tremble thru' the car) Keep us posted - be interested to know!

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