The Morbidmobile Blog

[TomSaintJames]

Thanks Dave, will have a fiddle today. I've already cleaned all the contacts that I could find, bit didn't do any of the ring connectors that attach to the light cluster bolts or inspect the bulb holders (apart from bulb connecting strip and bayonets themselves).

The OH still has his phone camera so will borrow that.

[Laird Scooby]

I suspect the ring crimps on the bolts might give you the result you need Tom.

[Dippydog]

Just read through all this thread[never looked at it before]an interesting project and I wish you well with it.With regard to the rear bumper lights could they have been ahead of their time?I believe it is[has been for a few years?]a legal requirement on estate cars etc that when the rear hatch is open that some form of rear lighting must sill be visible-presumably for if it's open at night-for example on the Insignia estate when the rear hatch is open there are "extra" light units set into the rear edges of the opening.I may very well be wrong in my reasoning for the bumper lights but it would seem to fit why they're there/how they operate?

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

Just read through all this thread[never looked at it before]an interesting project and I wish you well with it.With regard to the rear bumper lights could they have been ahead of their time?I believe it is[has been for a few years?]a legal requirement on estate cars etc that when the rear hatch is open that some form of rear lighting must sill be visible-presumably for if it's open at night-for example on the Insignia estate when the rear hatch is open there are "extra" light units set into the rear edges of the opening.I may very well be wrong in my reasoning for the bumper lights but it would seem to fit why they're there/how they operate?

You are probably right on the rear lighting, certainly for mass-produced cars. With a "special" such as this, it's difficult to know which laws would have applied when it was built 30 years ago or indeed if there were any such laws.

Extending that a bit more, if you present a car for MoT that is older than 1979, it doesn't need rear fog lamps for example because they weren't fitted and there was no legal requirement. I think it was cars registered from 1/7/79 (designed to catch the 1st August new registrations) that had to have a minimum of one (on the offside) rear fog lamp so some very late T registrations had them but ALL V registrations had to have them.

With that in mind, i've never needed to know the C&U on lighting for "specials" so i'm not sure if those extra bumper lights will come into the test or whether the tester will insist they should be permanently on or only come on when the tailgate is opened.

Going purely on the obligatory rear lights which are on the tailgate, as long as they all work, i think the bumper ones will be optional on this age car.

My opinion won't count for much as i'm not signing the MoT certificate though!

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

Just read through all this thread[never looked at it before]an interesting project and I wish you well with it.With regard to the rear bumper lights could they have been ahead of their time?I believe it is[has been for a few years?]a legal requirement on estate cars etc that when the rear hatch is open that some form of rear lighting must sill be visible-presumably for if it's open at night-for example on the Insignia estate when the rear hatch is open there are "extra" light units set into the rear edges of the opening.I may very well be wrong in my reasoning for the bumper lights but it would seem to fit why they're there/how they operate?

Yes. That was obviously the reasoning for the additional lights. That's why I drew attention that the main group of rear lights probably lifted with the tailgate.

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by TomSaintJames

Had the tax refund from the DVLA, it appears i've not missed out on any money, just tax - and as it's sat on the drive with no MOT i'm ok with that, so will re-tax tommorrow.

We did a little light show this evening, much to the neighbours viewing pleasure i'm sure!

Good bits:
Indicators in every combo = fine
Reverse lights in every combo = fine
Left light unit = completely fine
Numberplate lights = completely fine

However:
Brakes on = dim RH brak lighte off entirely (tail ight still on)
Fogs on = LH fog on, RH fog and RH tail light off, but dim brake light on.
Fogs on + brakes on = no light on the RHS unit at all, but LHS completely fine.

Another note, when you move the headlamp switch from one position to another, if you move it slowly all lights go off until it's in the next position, you can also hear clicking electronics (assumin relays?) in the dash/engine bay direction.

Apart from the 'dim' RH brake light being slightly less bright than the others (confusing!), the brightness across the rest of the lights seems to be even, and reassuringly bright too.

What do you think Dave? An earth fault?

Cheers.

Have you checked the wiring from the body of the vehicle to the tailgate, including the earth wires and connections?

[TomSaintJames]

Well folks, I’ve been tinkering since before 12 today and have absolutely nothing to show for it... In fact, the dim brake lights now don't work with the bootlid closed.

So first off, I inspected and cleaned all the driver’s side contacts, again, including the bulb bases, bulb base connector, bayonets, copper contacts and the plug/plug contacts on the light cluster. I also cleaned the ring connectors on the light cluster bolt, which actually were a little oxidised (but I thought I’d cleaned these before).
No change in lights.





Next, I did the same as above to the passenger side cluster, it was all still pretty clean.
No change in lights.



After that I had a look at the wires in the hinge area, and discovered, tucked away behind the LH hinge, a push-switch, this will be what senses that the bootlid is open/closed then. Should it have only one spade connection? I cleaned the spade connection, but also the metal ring, screw and area where it sits on the body.
No change to lights.







The wires for the rear light clusters seem to go into the car above the headlining, and my guess would be that these wires also feed the interior lights that are about half way along the body above each window, I took the RH sides cover off for a quick look and it is seems all the connections are clean that side, so didn't look at the LH side.

So next logical area to inspect are the bumper lights, I hope these units never have to be removed from the bumper as they are not coming out! Two bolts with nuts hold them on, but have degraded to a rusty indeterminate lump that used to be metal! Luckily the front covers come off, so cleaned everything here - there was quite a lot of oxidation of contacts so spent a little while cleaning these, also made sure all the bulbs work. The innermost bulb of each side has never worked, I’m guessing these may also be fogs?
No change to lights.



One end cleaned, the other not, for show.


Next is where it gets a little more interesting. I traced the bumper lights back into the car, and they are fed from a perspex/acrylic block with odd things in it, are these resistors? The feed for this block goes along the side of the car, into the carpet and under the passenger seat to the loom/dashboard I assume? What appears to be the earth wires (the three black ones to the RHS), one each goes to the bumper lights and the third goes with the feed for this block, but appears to go above the passenger front door (I think, unless it then goes down the door pillar and into the dash). I cleaned all that I could, the connections in the plastic block appear to be ok up close visually.

Above is thefeed from the front of the car, and below, the wires to the bumper lights.


Earth? The screw doesn't actually go into the body, just the plastic block but could relocate the earths to the screw that fixes the block to the body?


Wheel arch trim removed, showing filler neck in good condition, fuel pump wiring (I assume), feed and earth wiring for the bumper lights.


Feed and earth wires pulled forward slightly.


So, I am now stumped, but have a couple of thoughts.

1. A possible cause is that the driver’s side light cluster has an integral problem with the film-like motherboard thing (not sure what it's called) as this cluster lets water in (cracked).

2. There is something funky going on with the boot open/closed switch (needs two connections?)

3. The perspex/plastic block has dodgy connections and/or is inherently unsuitable for its task, based on me not knowing what it is!

4. There is an issue in the feed wires for the light clusters, maybe because they're cable tied to the hinge, or further upstream where I cannot see them. I’d have to take the headlining off for this which looks like a less than easy task!

5. The feed and/or earth for the bumper lights is dodgy or insufficient somewhere.

6. In the rear cluster wiring, in-between the two clusters (including the number plate lamps) wires have been joined - I didn't check these, so could a dodgy connection here cause issues?

Any other thoughts anyone? It's booked for a MOT Wednesday but will fail as it is now.

BTW is the passenger seat supposed to do this? You can push it forward, not so good I imagine if one had to do an emergency stop!

[Dippydog]

My apologies if my earlier post about the bumper lights was slightly mis-leading I didn't mean to imply that they were a legal requirement on such an early car,just that maybe someone was thinking along those lines for safety and retrofitted them.The bootlid open/closed switch would I think have just the one wire for power[and earths through the screw which holds it to the body]this would give you interior lights from the time the boot is opened until its shut a second wire could be run to it to give you the time delay function to the lights going out when the bootlid is shut.Does the passenger seat "lock off" with the back rest upright or can you just slide it backwards/forwards without having to operate some kind of lever to be able to move it?If it can just be slid backwards/forwards at will[or it can move during braking]then I believe it would be a fail.Do you have a multi meter? If so check to see if power is reaching the rear lights,if not work your way forwards to the next electrical connector and see if power is getting that far and so on.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by TomSaintJames

Well folks, I’ve been tinkering since before 12 today and have absolutely nothing to show for it... In fact, the dim brake lights now don't work with the bootlid closed.

The passenger seat should latch in the upright position Tom. Must be a release lever on the side somewhere, make sure it's nut stuck or whatever and that you can return it to the "rest" position so the seat latches when made upright.

Right, these lights! Thanks for the photos, i've found a few obvious things.



You see the wire that comes from the PCB on the back of the lamp unit? Follow it to where it bolts onto that earth bolt. There is no ring crimp on it and the insulation has been trapped - this will cause a bad earth - might be the only problem but i don't think you'll be that lucky!

Next bit - those components are diodes - "one way electrical valves" - no idea why they've got them in there but the earth terminal arrangement leaves a lot to be desired!



If you can move that to a better part of the bodywork, preferably with a bolt instead, i'm sure that would help.

Lastly, this is the switch for the luggage area lamp and should only have one wire on it :



Whether it's been used to trigger a relay to switch between bumper and tailgate mounted lamps i don't know but if you have a courtesy lamp in the roof, just inside the tailgate, that switch should control that.

[TomSaintJames]

It certainly seems logical Dippydog (apologies, I don;t know your name!) for lights to come on when the bootlid is open, as you quite rightly said all other lights are facing the sky, so less than useful as far as visability goes. Especially in this case as it's matt black! Even if it were shiny black it'd be more visible.

I *may* have snapped off that ring connector when tightening up the earth joint, the rotating nut caused the ring to rotate (shocker!) and shear off where it connected to the wire, even though I was holding it with pliers to stop it rotating and stretching things at the other end! I thought I managed to not get the insulation inbwtween the connectors but will check. It's a bit of a bodge, but I have no electrical stuff at home, so couldn't replace or even rob somethig else of its ring conenctor! I do have a replacement light cluster coming from Tommy, which I could do with, but don't want to pressure him, for reasons mentioned elsewhere. Hopefully I can make this unit work for the MOT at least.

I'll see about relocating that earth, if i'd had time today I was going to try it, but we were due round OH's parents for a Sunday roast (they're the best) and I had to get cleaned up. I slid my arm between the body and the inside trim on the side walls to trace the earth wire and got waxoil all over one arm! Stuff is a nightmare to get off your skin!

One wire on it yes, no evidence of any other attachments and it seems to have no effect on the two inside lights, which are operated with the heated rear screen switch, of course. May have to see about extra courtesy lights as it's difficult to see anything when you get in it and its dark out.

Thanks for the advice chaps, may yet have to ring and cancel the MOT but will keep trying.