Electrics: Garage near Margate (Kent)?

[lillia]

OK, I am back from the garage. They did a diagnostic analysis and basically said there was no indication that anything was wrong. Or rather, the only "faults" they found were:

1. UEM-0004: Siren communication fault (this is related to the alarm system service message - I had removed the fuse)
2. ECM-5200: Engine speed (RPM) sensor. They said this appeared to be a glitch and has been cleared.

Conclusion: no need to waste money replacing something if it is not at fault.

We discussed the possible reasons for the non-starting; they ruled out that this would be due to the fuel filter. They said a faulty pump was a possibility but unlikely in this model of car due to the design of the tank(?). This car is apparently not known for having fuel pump problems. In any event, it would apparently have shown up on the diagnostics if it had been the cause of the problems.

They suggested that I may have got some dodgy petrol recently and that this may be the source of the problem. They have therefore recommended that I keep an eye on the problem and contact them if the problem persists, which means that I probably have to wait until that reduced engine performance message (amber warning light) returns!

In the meantime, I am keeping my 5L reservoir bottle in the boot of the car and am petrified of letting the needle slip too far below half tank!

P.S. He was recommending that I purchase a bottle of Redex to put into the petrol tank, but I declined, said I would think about it. Any thoughts on this?

[cookie]

could be something as simple as fuel filter blocked, but my money is still on the in tank pump, IIRC similar across range, and are known problem when showing below half, where it won't pick up.

[lillia]

You make a good point. However, the garage ruled out the filter and were so adamant that there was nothing wrong with the pump that they did not do a fuel pressure test (I just read about this - apparently that is one of the best ways of confirming a problem with the fuel pump?). I agree with you that the pump is looking to be the most likely culprit. I have therefore decided to try to lay my hands on a fuel pressure tester. Failing that, I'll try to get myself up to London to my regular garage as soon as possible, before the car starts stalling with a full tank!

In the meantime, I'll:

(1) stick with Shell Vpower Nitro - the garage says to avoid dodgy fuel; if this turns out to be the base cause then I'm convinced it would have started when I bought 95 octan at a wayward Shell franchise that had no Vpower
and
(2) keep the needle above half tank - not very efficient, but what can I do, until the problem is solved?

**How often should the fuel filter be replaced? I have looked at my old service receipts and the term "fuel filter" last appeared on a specification two services ago. The car has done roughly 25000 miles since then.

[lillia]

This afternoon, I attempted to fill up the car (it was just under a half). The nozzle started to click as soon as the petrol began to flow, the little petrol that got into the reservoir settled very slowly before I could put in any more. It kept clicking and stopping, no matter how I far out I pulled the nozzle or angled it. It was like pulling teeth. I stopped at 16 litres out of sheer frustration.

Is this a brand new problem or yet another indicator of a faulty fuel pump, or is there some blockage in the tank that is preventing the fuel from going in, or making it believe that it is full?

[Chris_Rogers]

Couple of thoughts:

Maybe the petrol pump you used was faulty, not unknown.

Maybe your fuel tank was nearly full.

[lillia]

Thanks - I had not considered that the petrol station's pump could be faulty, but how would that explain the petrol sinking slowly in the car's petrol tank? You're quite right, the car certainly behaved as if the tank was full, but I'm fairly certain that it was not.

According to the fuel gauge at the time, the car had just a shade under half a tank, so I had intended to fill it. After putting in the 16 litres the needle moved up to just over a half, but the tank would not accept any more fuel. If the tank was indeed full then it would indicate that the fuel gauge is incorrect, or giving fluctuating readings, since only a few days before it was refusing to start with just under 1/4 tank of petrol (presumably because one or more sensors had indicated that the tank was empty). When I started it this morning it was nearly half full and indicated 220 miles to empty.

1. Could the tank be full but the gauge be thinking that it is empty?
2. Could the tank be blocked somewhere so that the most it will ever take in the future is half a tank of petrol?
3. Is there any one problem that would be giving all of these symptoms, e.g. the petrol pump? I am now thinking that this could be a problem with a sensor or the fuel sender, but how does one diagnose this in the absence of codes?
4. Would Redex be useful in this case?

[lillia]

I think I may have found an explanation for the slow filling problem:

Ref: http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/for...p?f=11&t=39698

Two things come to mind. One is the vent filter that is attached to the filler pipe up high near the gas cap end has become plugged.
The other is an issue that can happen when the engine cooling fan does an afterrun when shut off. IF the temp of engine is above a certain level or if you have driven the car at a high engine load in the prior 6 minutes before you stop engine the ECM will elect to run fan to keep underhood temps lower. If the fuel tank testing was initiated when you idled at fuel pump before you turned key off the fuel tank pressure test could have started. If fan is afterrunning and the test is started when the key is turned off then the canister vent valve that is energized and closed for testing can be kept closed and it will not take fuel because the vapors can't go anywhere and fuel backs up in the filler and kicks off nozzle like it was full.
Cycling ignition switch fixes this condition but has no bearing on the vent filter being plugged.
If it is a continual problem it is filter or like you read, a plugged canister or plumbing to the canister.
If it is the other condition you may drive for years and not have the combinations of things occur again.

Sounds plausible. I'll put it to the test and see what happens.

[Georgeandkira]

Hello, You're going to cycle the ignition switch if this happens again. I hope it's that simple. Great sleuthing!

All I can add is that the air intake filter to the fuel vapor purge system is mounted high on the filler neck. It's hard to think of that air intake getting clogged as it's well out of harm's (and dirt's) way.
Get a look at it by removing the plastic fender liner by drilling out the plastic pop rivets. There are hoses and a ground strap nearby. Make sure the ground strap isn't rubbing on the aluminum fill pipe.

I was looking for leaks which produced a code. I cut a 24" piece of scrap garden hose and fit it on the filter's downward facing barb fitting and blew into it hoping to hear a hiss. It worked. It was my "J" hose.

[lillia]

Thanks for the tip! I haven't got a drill here, but will try to find a way around that.

That bit I found was the first coherent explanation I have seen regarding this problem. Many cars have apparently experienced the slow fill-up issue, but few appear to know what causes it or how to deal with it. Fingers crossed!

No codes, so no problem, according to the garage, so until the car seriously misbehaves, I'm on my own. I've been swinging backwards and forwards between identifying the fuel filter and the fuel pump as the cause of the non-starting problem. Having read all I can on the symptoms, I'm once again swinging towards the filter. If it is not the fully enclosed one then I'll have a good look at it when I crawl under the car tomorrow and based on that, will just have the filter replaced, as a first step towards easing my worries.

[savabill]

Your looking at the filter and pump but, if you have a problem filling the tank because the air can't get out, wouldn't that give a problem because the air can't get in?