Engine swap, Bung a d24 into it

monkeh · May 14th, 2019, 06:18

Call me mad, and ask WHY!?
The shell on my d24tic is rotting... Its going in for MOT, being a Southampton car and 300,000 miles on it, I am expecting welding.
Its also base spec, Windy windows in the back, cloth seats, accumulated farts etc... Door shells and skins are rotting as are wings, I have holes near chassis legs. Its not long for this world

I am looking to see what is involved in swapping it into a better shell.
Its an m46 plus OD.

Hopefully doingitsideways will chime in...

Chassis mounts the same? Much involved in wiring?
Swapping it into an early shell would mean it would need a cat?
I understand that there is basically only 3 wires for the engine, but gearbox wiring for the OD and ABS.
If I find a 960/v90 shell, will I need to fart around with propshafts?

Laird Scooby · May 14th, 2019, 09:37

Definitely WHY?????

I see your location is Newport, is that Newport in Wales or on the island (IoW)? If you're on the island then you'll definitely have the "sea-breeze effect", moreso than Southampton in fact as it's relatively shletered in the residential areas from the sea-breeze effect.
Also there are many areas around Southampton that while they share a Soutahampton postal address, are a good 5-6 miles inland separated from the coast by hills which would diminish the sea-breeze effect.

By the way, just remembered there's another Newport between Romsey and Salisbury, very little sea-breeze effect their although you might get some trout fumes from time to time!

Getting back to the oily bits though, you'll need to transfer the fuel filler neck to accept a diesel nozzle at the filling station, other than that i'm 99.9% certain the bodyshells are the same so should be a "spanner job" - in other words, unbolt it from your donor vehicle and fit the running gear in the new shell.

As for the emissions, if you retain proof of where the engine came from and that is older than the new shell, it only has to meet the emissions for when the engine was made. If the shell you fit it to is older, it only has to meet the emissions for when the shell was made - weird but true.

The big stumbling block for me would be the fact it's a diesel - it's no coincidence they are often referred to as "diseasels" and have been for decades. Before it was publicly acknowledged that diesels contributed to health problems in a significant way, it was widely known that was the case although not always with scientific proof.

Also consider the fact the government is going to be raising fuel duty on diesel (they've already started this) and likely to increase VED on diesels too, it may be better in the long run to consider replacing with a petrol 7/9xx and keep the shell etc (everything except the engine) as spares then sell the engine separately.
If you're bothered about fuel costs, convert to LPG, it's about half the price of petrol and burns much cleaner, so much so you don't need a cat on it and can legally remove the cat.

Lots of things to consider there, good luck with the MoT anyway!

monkeh · May 14th, 2019, 12:27

Its Newport Wales...
I bought it off a chap in London, who bought it from a chap in Southampton, I kid you not, full history since day 1, as in the 600 mile visit to the dealer for the head to be re-torqued! 298,000 miles later, it became mine! Its definitely showing signs of sea air rot though.

I am able to do most of the nitty gritty stuff. Just the wiring really, I would need a few pointers. I didn't think of the fuel neck...
I know I'd have to change the fuel sender to a pumpless one.

And the main reason is just d24tic! I like the redblock, but I just love the agricultural sound of a d24 chugging away along with its effortless torque.
I run a remapped diesel 300c, I am used to the big diesel price. The Volvo is my 'slag' car, however I prefer driving that to the 300bhp luxobarge, mainly because of its noise, its character, its slightly better fuel economy...

Laird Scooby · May 14th, 2019, 14:49

Maybe the original owner lived somewhere like Hythe, Fawley, Lymingotn or similar that would be close to the water.
Of course it could also have easily happened in London if the owner lived near the Thames where it's tidal/sea water rather than fresh.

There are a number of other things to swap, instruments to get the diesel tacho (usually fed from the "W" terminal on the back of the alternator), ignition switch to obtain the feed for the glow plugs, glow plug relay and engine stop solenoid, i would change the fuel tank complete with sender/pump and renew the rubber hoses above it while it's out as well.

Obviously the exhaust system (although some parts do swap over to petrol and vice versa), radiator, possibly the steering rack and maybe even some parts of the wiring loom. For example, you won't need the part of the loom that supplies the petrol injection ECU and ignition.

Then there's the chance the rolling shell you buy is an automatic. That will entail changing the pedal box to gain the clutch pedal, swapping the clutch hydraulics or cable, depending which you have. Also the gear lever, centre console (if different) and probably the propshaft from yours. Assuming the vehicles are both estates, the back axle should be physically the same although the diff ratio may be different.

There are probably a lot more bits to swap that i haven't yet thought of but it's not going to be a weekend job and even if you get the basics done in a weekend, there will be other bits yo'll find as you go that will drag the job on for weeks, months maybe.

I'm guessing you mean the Chrysler 300C CRD or similar and not the Nissan 300C? Diesel versions of that are rare even in Japan unless it's a taxi, then it's a very lowly spec. Both that and the Chrysler are nice cars though, had a (UK 3.0 V6 petrol) Nissan 300C and also drove a Chrysler 300C (V8 petrol), quite a few of those round this neck of the woods among other USA cars.

rwdkev · May 15th, 2019, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeh

I am looking to see what is involved in swapping it into a better shell.
Its an m46 plus OD.

Hi Gareth,

If you want a 940, or 740/760, you'd be better off buying a TD off the shelf rather than doing a conversion - and keeping your current car as a future donor for it, especially for engine. A 960 mk1 (not available in UK with D24) wouldn't make sense either as it's essentially the same car (assuming estate!) as a 760 mk2 (as you had before). But for a 960 mk2/90 (not available in any market with D24) it would have to be a conversion. And if you are going to do a conversion you might as well go the whole hog and start with one of these.

Best regards, Kev

rwdkev · May 15th, 2019, 18:43

Have a look at post #10.....

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=141032

rwdkev · May 15th, 2019, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeh

Hopefully doingitsideways will chime in...

Chassis mounts the same? Much involved in wiring?
Swapping it into an early shell would mean it would need a cat?
I understand that there is basically only 3 wires for the engine, but gearbox wiring for the OD and ABS.
If I find a 960/v90 shell, will I need to fart around with propshafts?

Here you go Gareth, have a read of this from the man himself.....

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=112706

monkeh · May 16th, 2019, 21:57

Marvelous! Thank you!
Kev, I unfortunately don't have room to keep another car around. I might be ok now actually, Garage quoted me ~£60 to weld the bits that needed doing, It'll last another few years I hope. By then, I would have found another garage or moved to a house with adequate space! With all the manual 960's being eaten up for t5 conversions and porous heads, they are getting rare so pressure is now off to find a suitable shell. I have a Dutch friend who could purchase one over his neck of the woods if it went that far, I don't mind getting a left hooker. Plentiful and unfortunately expensive over there.

Laird Scooby, A lot of the cars wiring has been butchered, I would certainly have wired it up myself from scratch with what I was presented with. PO, had bypassed the glowplug relay and had a manual toggle switch, I replaced it with a momentary toggle switch and a man enough relay, foreseeing that the switch could be left on...
And yes, the Chrysler, I've not had the pleasure of the old Cedric's company. But if a nice SRT8 comes up cheap, I wouldn't be parting with my log burner, despite how many times I threaten to burnt he thing out in a field when it breaks!!! The £500 road fund license was the game changer for both the 5.7 and the 6.1 versions. I just wish they had a slightly longer lasting suspension setup, It's their Achilles heel.

Laird Scooby · May 16th, 2019, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeh

Laird Scooby, A lot of the cars wiring has been butchered, I would certainly have wired it up myself from scratch with what I was presented with. PO, had bypassed the glowplug relay and had a manual toggle switch, I replaced it with a momentary toggle switch and a man enough relay, foreseeing that the switch could be left on...
And yes, the Chrysler, I've not had the pleasure of the old Cedric's company. But if a nice SRT8 comes up cheap, I wouldn't be parting with my log burner, despite how many times I threaten to burnt he thing out in a field when it breaks!!! The £500 road fund license was the game changer for both the 5.7 and the 6.1 versions. I just wish they had a slightly longer lasting suspension setup, It's their Achilles heel.

Don't you just love previous owners "repairs"?

Must be something about London, my 760 lived there for a while with the previous owner who had the air-con evaporator removed because it was "blocked and leaking coolant"

also painted the body colour door mirrors with some weird black paint and umpteen other bodges that i've now fixed the majority of!

The old Cedric was a nice car and reading your comments i suspect you would like them too, drove like a 7xx on steroids with a slightly nicer ride. The saloons were auto with IRS, estates manual only with live rear axle - where have we heard similar before!

Good news on the welding, should keep you going for a while!

rwdkev · May 17th, 2019, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

....Nissan 300C? Diesel versions of that are rare even in Japan unless it's a taxi....

Wasn't that 2.8 straight-6 available in the UK but in the Patrol?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The saloons were auto with IRS, estates manual only with live rear axle - where have we heard similar before!

Yes, but at least 700/900 estate has coil springs and an elaborate location for its live axle - the 300C estate was still in the dark ages with its leaf springs and drum brakes at the back....

May 14th, 2019, 09:37	#2
Laird Scooby Premier Member Last Online: Today 12:22 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Lakenheath	Definitely WHY????? I see your location is Newport, is that Newport in Wales or on the island (IoW)? If you're on the island then you'll definitely have the "sea-breeze effect", moreso than Southampton in fact as it's relatively shletered in the residential areas from the sea-breeze effect. Also there are many areas around Southampton that while they share a Soutahampton postal address, are a good 5-6 miles inland separated from the coast by hills which would diminish the sea-breeze effect. By the way, just remembered there's another Newport between Romsey and Salisbury, very little sea-breeze effect their although you might get some trout fumes from time to time! Getting back to the oily bits though, you'll need to transfer the fuel filler neck to accept a diesel nozzle at the filling station, other than that i'm 99.9% certain the bodyshells are the same so should be a "spanner job" - in other words, unbolt it from your donor vehicle and fit the running gear in the new shell. As for the emissions, if you retain proof of where the engine came from and that is older than the new shell, it only has to meet the emissions for when the engine was made. If the shell you fit it to is older, it only has to meet the emissions for when the shell was made - weird but true. The big stumbling block for me would be the fact it's a diesel - it's no coincidence they are often referred to as "diseasels" and have been for decades. Before it was publicly acknowledged that diesels contributed to health problems in a significant way, it was widely known that was the case although not always with scientific proof. Also consider the fact the government is going to be raising fuel duty on diesel (they've already started this) and likely to increase VED on diesels too, it may be better in the long run to consider replacing with a petrol 7/9xx and keep the shell etc (everything except the engine) as spares then sell the engine separately. If you're bothered about fuel costs, convert to LPG, it's about half the price of petrol and burns much cleaner, so much so you don't need a cat on it and can legally remove the cat. Lots of things to consider there, good luck with the MoT anyway! __________________ Cheers Dave Next Door to Top-Gun with a Honda CR-V & S Type Jag Volvo gone but not forgotten........

May 14th, 2019, 12:27	#3
monkeh Pain in the backside Last Online: Today 00:21 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Newport	Its Newport Wales... I bought it off a chap in London, who bought it from a chap in Southampton, I kid you not, full history since day 1, as in the 600 mile visit to the dealer for the head to be re-torqued! 298,000 miles later, it became mine! Its definitely showing signs of sea air rot though. I am able to do most of the nitty gritty stuff. Just the wiring really, I would need a few pointers. I didn't think of the fuel neck... I know I'd have to change the fuel sender to a pumpless one. And the main reason is just d24tic! I like the redblock, but I just love the agricultural sound of a d24 chugging away along with its effortless torque. I run a remapped diesel 300c, I am used to the big diesel price. The Volvo is my 'slag' car, however I prefer driving that to the 300bhp luxobarge, mainly because of its noise, its character, its slightly better fuel economy... __________________ 'Designed by a computer, built by a robot, and driven by a f***ing nutter' '09 XC70 SE - 2" lift, D5 225bhp, poverty spec.

May 14th, 2019, 14:49	#4
Laird Scooby Premier Member Last Online: Today 12:22 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Lakenheath	Maybe the original owner lived somewhere like Hythe, Fawley, Lymingotn or similar that would be close to the water. Of course it could also have easily happened in London if the owner lived near the Thames where it's tidal/sea water rather than fresh. There are a number of other things to swap, instruments to get the diesel tacho (usually fed from the "W" terminal on the back of the alternator), ignition switch to obtain the feed for the glow plugs, glow plug relay and engine stop solenoid, i would change the fuel tank complete with sender/pump and renew the rubber hoses above it while it's out as well. Obviously the exhaust system (although some parts do swap over to petrol and vice versa), radiator, possibly the steering rack and maybe even some parts of the wiring loom. For example, you won't need the part of the loom that supplies the petrol injection ECU and ignition. Then there's the chance the rolling shell you buy is an automatic. That will entail changing the pedal box to gain the clutch pedal, swapping the clutch hydraulics or cable, depending which you have. Also the gear lever, centre console (if different) and probably the propshaft from yours. Assuming the vehicles are both estates, the back axle should be physically the same although the diff ratio may be different. There are probably a lot more bits to swap that i haven't yet thought of but it's not going to be a weekend job and even if you get the basics done in a weekend, there will be other bits yo'll find as you go that will drag the job on for weeks, months maybe. I'm guessing you mean the Chrysler 300C CRD or similar and not the Nissan 300C? Diesel versions of that are rare even in Japan unless it's a taxi, then it's a very lowly spec. Both that and the Chrysler are nice cars though, had a (UK 3.0 V6 petrol) Nissan 300C and also drove a Chrysler 300C (V8 petrol), quite a few of those round this neck of the woods among other USA cars. __________________ Cheers Dave Next Door to Top-Gun with a Honda CR-V & S Type Jag Volvo gone but not forgotten........

May 16th, 2019, 21:57	#8
monkeh Pain in the backside Last Online: Today 00:21 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Newport	Marvelous! Thank you! Kev, I unfortunately don't have room to keep another car around. I might be ok now actually, Garage quoted me ~£60 to weld the bits that needed doing, It'll last another few years I hope. By then, I would have found another garage or moved to a house with adequate space! With all the manual 960's being eaten up for t5 conversions and porous heads, they are getting rare so pressure is now off to find a suitable shell. I have a Dutch friend who could purchase one over his neck of the woods if it went that far, I don't mind getting a left hooker. Plentiful and unfortunately expensive over there. Laird Scooby, A lot of the cars wiring has been butchered, I would certainly have wired it up myself from scratch with what I was presented with. PO, had bypassed the glowplug relay and had a manual toggle switch, I replaced it with a momentary toggle switch and a man enough relay, foreseeing that the switch could be left on... And yes, the Chrysler, I've not had the pleasure of the old Cedric's company. But if a nice SRT8 comes up cheap, I wouldn't be parting with my log burner, despite how many times I threaten to burnt he thing out in a field when it breaks!!! The £500 road fund license was the game changer for both the 5.7 and the 6.1 versions. I just wish they had a slightly longer lasting suspension setup, It's their Achilles heel. __________________ 'Designed by a computer, built by a robot, and driven by a f***ing nutter' '09 XC70 SE - 2" lift, D5 225bhp, poverty spec.

May 14th, 2019, 06:18	#1
monkeh Pain in the backside Last Online: Today 00:21 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Newport	Engine swap, Bung a d24 into it Call me mad, and ask WHY!? The shell on my d24tic is rotting... Its going in for MOT, being a Southampton car and 300,000 miles on it, I am expecting welding. Its also base spec, Windy windows in the back, cloth seats, accumulated farts etc... Door shells and skins are rotting as are wings, I have holes near chassis legs. Its not long for this world I am looking to see what is involved in swapping it into a better shell. Its an m46 plus OD. Hopefully doingitsideways will chime in... Chassis mounts the same? Much involved in wiring? Swapping it into an early shell would mean it would need a cat? I understand that there is basically only 3 wires for the engine, but gearbox wiring for the OD and ABS. If I find a 960/v90 shell, will I need to fart around with propshafts? __________________ 'Designed by a computer, built by a robot, and driven by a f***ing nutter' '09 XC70 SE - 2" lift, D5 225bhp, poverty spec.

May 15th, 2019, 18:43	#6
rwdkev VOC member Last Online: Mar 27th, 2024 18:04 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Dudley	Have a look at post #10..... https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=141032

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)