V50 Brakes : Anti Skid Service Required message

[clemj]

thanks for help everybody! An independent has suggested I pressure VUK into providing brake control unit free of charge. I was one month out of warranty and had done less than 1000 miles since last dealer service. What are my chances? Is it reasonable for such an expensive component to fail after 20k miles?

[mjcourtney]

No it's definitely not reasonable for it to have failed in that time! It's worth asking Volvo for some goodwill gesture, even if they don't pay for all of the work they may contribute a fair amount towards it.
If you've had the car serviced by volvo main dealers since new then Volvo are often willing to pay 100% of the cost if it's only just outside of warranty. They did on mine. Give them a call

[Fast Reg]

Sorry to drag this one up from the depths, but I thought I should post an update.

Towards the end of March I was getting the "Brake Failure" message more frequently so took it in to my (not so) local main dealer. They whacked it on the diagnostic machine and reset all the fault messages that they said appeared to be going back quite some time. After they did this the car ran faultlessly.

Well, until this week that is.

On Tuesday I got a repeat of the "brake failure" fault message while on my way to work, but was able to clear it by turning it off and on a few times. Then on Thursday I got the same fault message again but the car then refused to play ball and gave a whole heap of other fault messages. In the end I had to call out the breakdown service to recover the car back to the main dealer for attention.

When I got the call from the dealer's Master Tech I was faced with a lot of questions. Had any work been done on the car? Had I suffered a flat battery? Had anything been removed or disconnected? All the answers were "No", the car has had nothing done to it since it was in towards the end of March. Needless to say the diagnostic machine had thrown up a whole array of fault messages covering the battery, power steering, brakes and engine management systems, among many many others. Some even seemed to contradict each other, as I'd apparently logged battery over-voltage messages alongside battery under-voltage messages. And in all that time the car had run faultlessly, never failed to start and had never exhibited any other symptoms.

So now I'm at the point of having to monitor the car. Any further fault messages and I'm to take it straight round to the main dealer again, which is not entirely convenient considering where the main dealer is in relation to where I live and work, and the type of work I do for a living.

What I find most galling is that the car itself appears to be fault-free and the problems seem to be down to some spurious ECU fault. I happen to quite like this car, but I'm beginning to lose faith in it and am wondering whether or not I should now change it. I can't really afford to keep chopping and changing, but I would really expect more from a car that is just 3 1/2 years old with 35k miles on the clock. No other car I have owned has caused me this much trouble except for my very first car, but that was an old banger with more than 100k miles under it's belt.

I'm just glad that the main dealer I'm using appears to be a good 'un. The trip up to them in March cost me £57 for the diagnostics, but they did also give the car a full health check and clean it inside and out too. This time it was just the diagnostics, but they allowed me to have this gratis.

[Scougy]

Hi,

Same problem. Car 8 days out of warranty. I was unimpressed with such a major component failing. Delighted to say that Volvo UK making a 100% contribution for parts and labour! Work gets done in 2 days time! Well done Volvo UK.

[Oldandslow]

Many thanks to everyone for their comments. I too have suffered the same problem, however, once the Brake Position Sensor (£278) had been replaced another fault was discovered, this time the Brake Pressure Sensor with a price tag of £1285. Volvo have offered 40% as my S40 is 6 months out of warranty. I have recently retired from the aircraft industry where data bus fault reporting is a similar and very difficult art. I am now trying to convince the local garrage to examine and think about the problem before they change another box.

Lets not beat about the bush, it takes a clever systems engineer to decypher some of the information and I feel the motor industry is not generally equiped to handle the situation. There are 2 ways of dealing with it, you either train your engineers or write sophisticated software to solve the problem. None of it easy and none of it cheap.

At least I know I am not alone.

[rickardrydell]

My fathers S40 2.0D 2004 (his 7th Volvo since 1988)is currently in Ray Chapman Motors York, FOR THE FOURTH TIME.

A total of 4 weeks in the workshop, over a 9 week period

1st time they were charged £600, now the dealer wants another £400. They are still not 100% what the problem is.

Last time the dealer said "it could not be faulted", less than 30 miles up the A1 and what do you know...a very slow drive back to York, in limp mode.

A technician has been taking the car home, days off, weekends etc. Not once has it been cleaned or refuelled on its return.

Volvo Dealer of the Year, my arse!!!!!!! Rubbish customer service.

[7050man]

Originally Posted by Oldandslow

Lets not beat about the bush, it takes a clever systems engineer to decypher some of the information and I feel the motor industry is not generally equiped to handle the situation. There are 2 ways of dealing with it, you either train your engineers or write sophisticated software to solve the problem. None of it easy and none of it cheap.

At least I know I am not alone.

This is a fair comment. The problem is that the average dealer will not have anyone with the experience or time to take on an intermittant fault.

On modern auto motive systems like this, a slight voltage fluctuation, electrical noise or an irregular cpu input signal , can either generate a false code or genuine code that may not return.

The other common misunderstanding is that the computer is king. This is a myth. The computer may well give a clue as to where to look and in the case of a solid fault, will take the technician to the relevant faulty sensor. However with an intermittant fault, it only assist in gathering data. It's then down to the person who understands the car electro mechanical system to decide how to use the data.
This is where eyes,ears brain and possibly a good wiring diagram come into it and the time to investigate.

[wheelie_1]

V50 58 2.0D R-Design Powershift

I spent several hours on the hard shoulder of the M1 following a series of error messages.
Started with the warning message of Power Systems Urgent Service! Followed swiftly by Anti Skid System temporarily disabled.
Followed by Power Steering service required ( with a failure of power steering subsequent).
At this point the radio ceased to work and the aircon shut down.
After 20 minutes the engine began to suddenly increase and decrease revs of its own accord.Followed by al the lights on the dash bursting into life.

I decided at this point to get off the main carriageway, which, as it happened, was a wise idea as moments later the engine cut off and the brakes failed as I can to a stop slowly on the hard shoulder.

The RAC patrolman immediately noticed the battery had less than 11V, and correctly identified a faulty alternator not charging the battery properly.
I was advised that if the battery charge levels drop below the 11V mar, the CPU will start to shut systems down to retain basic operation of the engine.

Having recovered the car to my nearest dealer, Harrats in Huddersfield, they quickly agreed with the RAC report and replaced the alternator under warranty. I gues this was also a little embarrassing for them as the car had been one of their own demo models!! Overall I have always had a very good reception at Harratts so hopefully this will continue.

A little worrying that such a small drain on the battery can cause such a major problem with the basic operations on the car.

[Fast Reg]

Originally Posted by Oldandslow

Many thanks to everyone for their comments. I too have suffered the same problem, however, once the Brake Position Sensor (£278) had been replaced another fault was discovered, this time the Brake Pressure Sensor with a price tag of £1285. Volvo have offered 40% as my S40 is 6 months out of warranty. I have recently retired from the aircraft industry where data bus fault reporting is a similar and very difficult art. I am now trying to convince the local garrage to examine and think about the problem before they change another box.

Lets not beat about the bush, it takes a clever systems engineer to decypher some of the information and I feel the motor industry is not generally equiped to handle the situation. There are 2 ways of dealing with it, you either train your engineers or write sophisticated software to solve the problem. None of it easy and none of it cheap.

Originally Posted by 7050man

This is a fair comment. The problem is that the average dealer will not have anyone with the experience or time to take on an intermittant fault.

On modern auto motive systems like this, a slight voltage fluctuation, electrical noise or an irregular cpu input signal , can either generate a false code or genuine code that may not return.

The other common misunderstanding is that the computer is king. This is a myth. The computer may well give a clue as to where to look and in the case of a solid fault, will take the technician to the relevant faulty sensor. However with an intermittant fault, it only assist in gathering data. It's then down to the person who understands the car electro mechanical system to decide how to use the data.
This is where eyes,ears brain and possibly a good wiring diagram come into it and the time to investigate.

And this is the infuriating situation in which I find myself.

I have little to no understanding of mechanics and absolutely none about electronics and computers, and this is why I pay main dealer rates to have these issues investigated. I'm a numpty and these guys are supposed to be the experts.

My concern is that the master tech seems to be of the opinion that at least some of these fault codes are genuine and is trying to pin down precisely which system(s) is faulty without considering that it might be the ECU itself that to blame. From my position of total ignorance I would have imagined that such as cascade of fault messages (some of them quite major) should be signalling that the fault could be elsewhere other than in the systems flagged up, as with Wheelie's alternator.

I would have hoped a trained tech would be asking more questions and carrying out more investigations to determine the true nature of the fault. By all means hook it up to the diagnostic machine, but if the data received as a result is baffling and if the owner's experience of the car if at variance with what would be expected in the light of the data on the diagnostics, then perhaps this is the time to question the reliability of the data and to consider what else might be wrong.

But then perhaps in my ignorance I'm missing something really simple. Wouldn't it be great if we had our own tame Volvo tech on the forum to illuminate areas such as this.

On that note, apart from duff batteries and alternators, are there any other external systems that could play merry havoc with the ECU in this way?

[Guru]

Originally Posted by Fast Reg

On that note, apart from duff batteries and alternators, are there any other external systems that could play merry havoc with the ECU in this way?

H2O as with all other electronics.

And in my opinion, the ECU isn't protected well enough from the elements.