S80 bifuel - now refuses to run on LPG - Page 3

MikeHill · Nov 25th, 2009, 08:25

Yes that is the hose - the filter does not seem to be shown in your diagram, but is cylindrical perhaps 2 inches long, follow the hose back up from the distributor which is mounted on the front of the engine. Hopefully the hose is secured onto the filter with a jubilee clip you can undo with a screwdriver although elsewhere on my S80 there are clips which you cannot easily do up again which have been secured with some sort of special tool. If the tube is not secured with a jubilee clip you will need to buy one before you start - probably the smallest available costing pence not pounds, to replace the clip you will have removed to disconnect the pipe.
Good luck with it and I hope it works for you as it has for us.
If I can I'll put a pic up showing the filter on the wife's S80 in the next day or so.

cjr · Nov 25th, 2009, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHill

Yes that is the hose - the filter does not seem to be shown in your diagram, but is cylindrical perhaps 2 inches long, follow the hose back up from the distributor which is mounted on the front of the engine. Hopefully the hose is secured onto the filter with a jubilee clip you can undo with a screwdriver although elsewhere on my S80 there are clips which you cannot easily do up again which have been secured with some sort of special tool. If the tube is not secured with a jubilee clip you will need to buy one before you start - probably the smallest available costing pence not pounds, to replace the clip you will have removed to disconnect the pipe.
Good luck with it and I hope it works for you as it has for us.
If I can I'll put a pic up showing the filter on the wife's S80 in the next day or so.

Mike located everything. Off to buy some STP and tomorrow will get to work.... hopefully for an hour at most. If it works, looks like I could save £300 a month. Thanks for spending the time to write me an idiots guide.

cjr · Nov 26th, 2009, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjr

Mike located everything. Off to buy some STP and tomorrow will get to work.... hopefully for an hour at most. If it works, looks like I could save £300 a month. Thanks for spending the time to write me an idiots guide.

Mike. Carried out procedure earlier today, but had to cut slightly short the time the liquid had time to do its job - so will redo tonight (not sure if a longer cleanse will have further benefit). Anyway I was able to drive on gas... the first time in four months. The engine is still slightly stuttering at idle and more apparent above 2800 revs At 60mph I get a message on dashboard saying slow or change up. Will get to work in the next hour and leave overnight. I will get the filter changed as I did hear they should be changed every 12k miles as they pick up small oil deposits (not sure if this happens). Have you done any further work to your distributor or stepper motor.... or mabe if I do the above it will be sufficient.

Cheers

Chris

MikeHill · Nov 26th, 2009, 17:53

Chris, very glad to hear that it has helped a bit - maybe a second dose will bring further improvements - fingers crossed.
I have done no further work at the moment and it is still running very well on gas. It was previously owned by the Scottish Executive and was chauffeur driven, probably maintained on a no expense spared basis. I think both the evaporator and the distributor look like they may have been replaced at some time, the distributor is really quite exposed to weather and I am surprised it has no external corrosion showing.
I do have gasket, seals and diaphragm sets for both in case I do have to do more later.

Mike

cjr · Nov 26th, 2009, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHill

Chris, very glad to hear that it has helped a bit - maybe a second dose will bring further improvements - fingers crossed.
I have done no further work at the moment and it is still running very well on gas. It was previously owned by the Scottish Executive and was chauffeur driven, probably maintained on a no expense spared basis. I think both the evaporator and the distributor look like they may have been replaced at some time, the distributor is really quite exposed to weather and I am surprised it has no external corrosion showing.
I do have gasket, seals and diaphragm sets for both in case I do have to do more later.

Mike

What a small world... I bought mine about fifteen months ago from Klassic Cars in Coatbridge, Glasgow. Ex chauffeur driven Scottish Executive, 108k on clock, maintained no expense spared ! Its now uptp 180k miles, as I operate a small airport transfer business. Will update you in morning as to luck !

cjr · Nov 27th, 2009, 21:18

Gave distributor a second dose of STP Injection cleaner last night and the car is running a treat.... however, on slowin the car it has stalled a couple of times. restarting has been a challenge, but when its going its fine. any views ?

MikeHill · Nov 28th, 2009, 14:30

You are now moving into areas outside my immediate experience, I understand that the condition of the spark plugs is more critical when running on gas so could be a contributing factor if they have not been changed recently.
It is worth spending a bit of time searching this site with say lpg and slow running, or stalling to take in the benefit of the experience of others.
Glad to hear it is now running on gas though.

Hewey · Dec 8th, 2009, 10:51

Hi,

Surely the injector cleaner helps to dissolve and remove dirt from inside the distributor, but the cleaner may possible cause the membrane at the bottom of the distributor to melt somewhat and then the membrane may be stuck to "closed" position -> no gas will flow through the distributor -> engine dies.

The job of the membrane is to close the route of gas to the distributor during 1-engine stopped, 2-petrol driving but also 3-during gas driving when engine braking. When the engine is off, the membrane is held at "closed" position with a small spring. When gas driving starts, the membrane is opened by opening a small pilot route for the gas to enter inside the distributor. The increasing gas pressure then works against the spring until the membrane opens and the main gas flow route opens to the distributor. The pilot route is opened with a magnetic valve, and when the electricity is cut away from it (during engine off & gas drive engine braking), the pilot route is shut -> the spring closes the membrane -> no gas enters the distributor.

If the stalling occurs particularly after engine braking, just replace the membrane and clean the mating surface so the new membrane does not stick again to it. Luckily a new membrane does not cost much (even Volvo sells a decent priced overhaul set, not to mention 4-Tech which sells even better equipped set) and is easy to replace. At the same time you might as well clean the whole distributor with brake cleaner (especially the V-shaped grooves in the sliding cylinder wall) and then lubricate afterwards the moving parts with WD40 or similar. Then it is a joy to reassemble the distributor with new O-rings and membrane from the overhaul set.

If the membrane change remedies the stalling issue, it would be wise to rethink if the injector cleaner dosage is a safe cleaning method for the distributor. The distributor is not so complicated thing to open, clean and reinstall. It is also nice to learn how it works, to be able to understand the car better when it has troubles. Just be careful with the gas leakage though, I'm running with CNG, which is much more safer than LPG, which is denser than air and fires up very easily.

Regards, Hewey

MikeHill · Dec 11th, 2009, 20:33

Surely the injector cleaner helps to dissolve and remove dirt from inside the distributor, but the cleaner may possible cause the membrane at the bottom of the distributor to melt somewhat and then the membrane may be stuck to "closed" position -> no gas will flow through the distributor -> engine dies.

If you have no evidence at all that this will happen why bring it up? The procedure worked fine for me and has caused no problems.

Hewey · Dec 13th, 2009, 17:52

Hi,

It's great that you have found an easy first aid for the dirty distributor problem. I surely did not mean to underestimate it. I have just been reading of so many cases of stalling Volvo Bi-fuels that it forced me to think that what the heck is the thing with them. Recently in Finland we had one Bi-fuel that had this stalling issue and it proved to be the melten/sticky memrane causing it. I just thought to share this experience here too, so possibly the Bi-fuel owners in UK could have a little bit easier future too.

I hope you understand me now better, I just hope that as many as possible of NGV drivers keep connected and share information to be able to survive in the pressure of stealers.

Best regards, Hewey

Nov 25th, 2009, 08:25	#21
MikeHill New Member Last Online: Mar 31st, 2010 21:30 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Faversham	Yes that is the hose - the filter does not seem to be shown in your diagram, but is cylindrical perhaps 2 inches long, follow the hose back up from the distributor which is mounted on the front of the engine. Hopefully the hose is secured onto the filter with a jubilee clip you can undo with a screwdriver although elsewhere on my S80 there are clips which you cannot easily do up again which have been secured with some sort of special tool. If the tube is not secured with a jubilee clip you will need to buy one before you start - probably the smallest available costing pence not pounds, to replace the clip you will have removed to disconnect the pipe. Good luck with it and I hope it works for you as it has for us. If I can I'll put a pic up showing the filter on the wife's S80 in the next day or so. Last edited by MikeHill; Nov 25th, 2009 at 08:27.

Dec 8th, 2009, 10:51	#28
Hewey New Member Last Online: Jun 18th, 2010 09:15 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampere	Hi, Surely the injector cleaner helps to dissolve and remove dirt from inside the distributor, but the cleaner may possible cause the membrane at the bottom of the distributor to melt somewhat and then the membrane may be stuck to "closed" position -> no gas will flow through the distributor -> engine dies. The job of the membrane is to close the route of gas to the distributor during 1-engine stopped, 2-petrol driving but also 3-during gas driving when engine braking. When the engine is off, the membrane is held at "closed" position with a small spring. When gas driving starts, the membrane is opened by opening a small pilot route for the gas to enter inside the distributor. The increasing gas pressure then works against the spring until the membrane opens and the main gas flow route opens to the distributor. The pilot route is opened with a magnetic valve, and when the electricity is cut away from it (during engine off & gas drive engine braking), the pilot route is shut -> the spring closes the membrane -> no gas enters the distributor. If the stalling occurs particularly after engine braking, just replace the membrane and clean the mating surface so the new membrane does not stick again to it. Luckily a new membrane does not cost much (even Volvo sells a decent priced overhaul set, not to mention 4-Tech which sells even better equipped set) and is easy to replace. At the same time you might as well clean the whole distributor with brake cleaner (especially the V-shaped grooves in the sliding cylinder wall) and then lubricate afterwards the moving parts with WD40 or similar. Then it is a joy to reassemble the distributor with new O-rings and membrane from the overhaul set. If the membrane change remedies the stalling issue, it would be wise to rethink if the injector cleaner dosage is a safe cleaning method for the distributor. The distributor is not so complicated thing to open, clean and reinstall. It is also nice to learn how it works, to be able to understand the car better when it has troubles. Just be careful with the gas leakage though, I'm running with CNG, which is much more safer than LPG, which is denser than air and fires up very easily. Regards, Hewey __________________ 2000 V70 2,4 Bi-Fuel AT Last edited by Hewey; Dec 8th, 2009 at 11:03. Reason: some more details and corrected misspelling

Dec 13th, 2009, 17:52	#30
Hewey New Member Last Online: Jun 18th, 2010 09:15 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampere	Hi, It's great that you have found an easy first aid for the dirty distributor problem. I surely did not mean to underestimate it. I have just been reading of so many cases of stalling Volvo Bi-fuels that it forced me to think that what the heck is the thing with them. Recently in Finland we had one Bi-fuel that had this stalling issue and it proved to be the melten/sticky memrane causing it. I just thought to share this experience here too, so possibly the Bi-fuel owners in UK could have a little bit easier future too. I hope you understand me now better, I just hope that as many as possible of NGV drivers keep connected and share information to be able to survive in the pressure of stealers. Best regards, Hewey __________________ 2000 V70 2,4 Bi-Fuel AT

Nov 26th, 2009, 17:53	#24
MikeHill New Member Last Online: Mar 31st, 2010 21:30 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Faversham	Chris, very glad to hear that it has helped a bit - maybe a second dose will bring further improvements - fingers crossed. I have done no further work at the moment and it is still running very well on gas. It was previously owned by the Scottish Executive and was chauffeur driven, probably maintained on a no expense spared basis. I think both the evaporator and the distributor look like they may have been replaced at some time, the distributor is really quite exposed to weather and I am surprised it has no external corrosion showing. I do have gasket, seals and diaphragm sets for both in case I do have to do more later. Mike

Nov 27th, 2009, 21:18	#26
cjr Junior Member Last Online: Sep 30th, 2011 12:23 Join Date: May 2009 Location: reading	Gave distributor a second dose of STP Injection cleaner last night and the car is running a treat.... however, on slowin the car it has stalled a couple of times. restarting has been a challenge, but when its going its fine. any views ?

Nov 28th, 2009, 14:30	#27
MikeHill New Member Last Online: Mar 31st, 2010 21:30 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Faversham	You are now moving into areas outside my immediate experience, I understand that the condition of the spark plugs is more critical when running on gas so could be a contributing factor if they have not been changed recently. It is worth spending a bit of time searching this site with say lpg and slow running, or stalling to take in the benefit of the experience of others. Glad to hear it is now running on gas though.

Dec 11th, 2009, 20:33	#29
MikeHill New Member Last Online: Mar 31st, 2010 21:30 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Faversham	Surely the injector cleaner helps to dissolve and remove dirt from inside the distributor, but the cleaner may possible cause the membrane at the bottom of the distributor to melt somewhat and then the membrane may be stuck to "closed" position -> no gas will flow through the distributor -> engine dies. If you have no evidence at all that this will happen why bring it up? The procedure worked fine for me and has caused no problems.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)