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water loss

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Old Jul 12th, 2019, 23:48   #11
volvomadwoman
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many thanks for all the suggestions,the new waterpump does not appear to leak the tray underneath is dry(unlike before when you could stand and watch it dripping onto it and i touched the seal will trying to show guys at lakes volvo by phone and it fell apart oops),
no puddles under the car, not sure where i would buy a pulsating light source from(especially as it loses a header tank full when driven on a 5 mile roundtrip) been without a car all week,waiting in a queue for mechanic good ones always popular
i will have another look at various pipes etc and try to see behind the pump
i dont want to lose this one to a headgasket,replacements are hard to find these days
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Old Jul 13th, 2019, 00:14   #12
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not sure where i would buy a pulsating light source from
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Version-Wat.../dp/B015W3XFO2



Press the button once to turn it on (full brightness), again to dim it (pulsed brightness) and a third time to turn it off.
Very good head torch, useful for all kinds of things besides this!

Is your car automatic by any chance?
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Old Jul 13th, 2019, 02:11   #13
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Well the water pump has been changed. Why was it changed? Anyway that must remain suspect?

You mention the head gasket. If necessary that can be changed. But is that suspect? Is there mayonnaise inside the oil filler cap? (Oil and water don't mix happily.) It has been suggested above that you have a test in the header tank for exhaust gas. And a pressure test. Starting the engine during a pressure test rapidly increases the pressure reading if the engine pressurises the cooling system. (Olde school mechanics taught to me by an olde school motor engineer.)

But for a simple leak. Seek and ye shall find. Use lights whatever you can, stare from angles, look and look again. Is this a volvo red block engine? Be very sure to check the little heater hoses near the back of the engine going to the bulkhead. Usually neglected. Cheap but a bit of a pig to get at to replace. (Lay on top of engine with legs dangling over pavement &c. &c.)

I've not tried this but. You can get an additive for coolant that shows up in UV light, to reveal leaks. One of my LED work lights has UV for that purpose.

Remember though. re all modern tests The old testing methods do still work.

Keep investigating. You will sort it out.

My hunch is the water pump still, because it has been changed, or those pesky heater hoses because they are usually neglected .... unless there is reason to suspect the head gasket.

Good luck.

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Last edited by Stephen Edwin; Jul 13th, 2019 at 02:14.
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Old Jul 13th, 2019, 12:37   #14
Ian21401
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OP mentioned that the valve on the driver’s side of the bulkhead is leaking but doesn’t think that that is where all the water is leaking away to. I presume that she means the heater valve. If it’s only losing the amount of coolant in the expansion tank I suggest that that is where the coolant is escaping from. Stephen Edwin has mentioned checking the heater hoses at the back of the engine block. One of those is connected to the heater valve. Before doing anything else I would check those hoses. If they appear OK try isolating the heater valve by joining the hoses to isolate the heater. I did this once a long time ago to keep the car useable until I sourced and fitted a replacement heater valve. If this identifies the problem and the heater hoses are rather old, I would consider renewing them if replacements can be sourced. They are short but bent through certain angles to fit. Other threads on this forum indicate that the heater hoses and heater valve for certain models are very difficult to obtain now.
Best of luck.
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Old Jul 13th, 2019, 13:05   #15
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OP mentioned that the valve on the driver’s side of the bulkhead is leaking but doesn’t think that that is where all the water is leaking away to. I presume that she means the heater valve. If it’s only losing the amount of coolant in the expansion tank I suggest that that is where the coolant is escaping from. Stephen Edwin has mentioned checking the heater hoses at the back of the engine block. One of those is connected to the heater valve. Before doing anything else I would check those hoses. If they appear OK try isolating the heater valve by joining the hoses to isolate the heater. I did this once a long time ago to keep the car useable until I sourced and fitted a replacement heater valve. If this identifies the problem and the heater hoses are rather old, I would consider renewing them if replacements can be sourced. They are short but bent through certain angles to fit. Other threads on this forum indicate that the heater hoses and heater valve for certain models are very difficult to obtain now.
Best of luck.
The OP also mentions there's no obvious place besides the (presumed) heater valve. No trace of any other loss. If it is simply the heater valve/hoses, they can be bypassed as a temporary measure. More worried that it's automatic and the heat exchanger for the ATF in the radiator has sprung a leak and is filling the gearbox with water.
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Old Jul 16th, 2019, 21:32   #16
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well, the heater matrix was uncovered and shone like a lovely green alien, it was quickly covered up.as a very long job that no one wants the valve to the matrix was discovered in the engine side with no leaks, phoned lakes again and they said sounds like heater matrix which they declined to fix as too expensive and no one wants the job anyway, they had just scrapped one.
now my car is overpressurising after k seal was put in,it was escaping from the header tank so now consigned to short journeys as it can go anytime and the coolant will go for the weakest componant to leak from i have been told,lakes reckon the engine is corroded and dont give much of a lifespan on it although we shifted a massive sideboard+dresser in it today for one of my daughters (2 runs as was too big even for a volvo)
just been told to keep an eye on the water which so far no loss just pressures up the header tank
so now looking for another 940 auto estate,we have been offered a berlingo but apart from the 'cheaper on the fuel' bit ummmmm its not a VOLVO!!
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Old Jul 16th, 2019, 21:42   #17
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Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
The OP also mentions there's no obvious place besides the (presumed) heater valve. No trace of any other loss. If it is simply the heater valve/hoses, they can be bypassed as a temporary measure. More worried that it's automatic and the heat exchanger for the ATF in the radiator has sprung a leak and is filling the gearbox with water.
water escapes through the header/expansion tank when it pressurises tto much but on short journeys it doesnt leak out,so looking for another 940 auto estate
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Old Jul 16th, 2019, 22:10   #18
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thats unfortunate.

However... remember that any 940 you replace yours with is ALSO 25 years old, with approximately 7-10k miles on it for each of those years. It will have exactly the same issues your current vehicle has unless it comes with documented evidence that stuff has been done recently.

All the issues that you currently are having are known common problems in high mileage, older B230Fx, x40 Volvos. You are very likely going to be trading one problem vehicle for another.

This is a polite way of saying that often, its better the devil you know.

If you are strongly attached to your box on wheels, I suggest you consider the cost of any repairs required as a "deferred maintenance" expense. Assuming you replace ALL of the likely troublesome components in the cooling system it will be expensive, but spread over the ownership period of the car, it doesn't look so bad.

The heater matrix can be bypassed easily. This leaves you without a heater while you decide. On my experience, I would strongly advise replacing the radiator and coolant hoses (if they haven't been done recently). If there is still a problem after that, its probably the head gasket which is a relatively minor engine job on the B230 engine.

Yes, you will be spending around 500 to 700 quid excluding the heater matrix. But realistically, thats a cost you will face in future with almost any other 940 you look at.
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Old Jul 16th, 2019, 22:14   #19
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so now looking for another 940 auto estate,we have been offered a berlingo but apart from the 'cheaper on the fuel' bit ummmmm its not a VOLVO!!
With the extra information it's pointing very strongly at the head gasket. You're absolutely right, the pressure will find the leakest wink and destroy it, resulting in a leak from whatever happens to be that weakest link.

Don't touch the Berlingo, step away from the Berlingo - keep away from the Berlingo!

First, if load lugging is a priority, forget those horrible French things (Berlingo/Partner) as they don't even come up to half the capacity of the Volvo.

Second, the passenger seat is incredibly uncomfortable - designed as an occasional passenger seat but folds forward to give a small (not really usable) work-bench then folds again to reveal a lunch tray. Useful ish i suppose but only as a novelty.
Whether the one you've been offered is the "Multispac" car version or the van version, i don't know but would hope in the car version the passenger seat is more comfortable - the vans certainly aren't!

Third, they wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, never mind a decent load.

I had 3 of the damned things as company vans, they were all the same and all were rubbish.

On a more positive note, you should be able to find a 940 auto estate fairly easily (and at less cost than having the heater matrix and head gasket done) or even a 960 but also consider the 7xx versions as well. I'm sure your present 940 will yield a lot of useful spares no matter which you end up with.

Had a quick look on fleabay and found a couple, not exactly local to you though.

Firt is in Leeds :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NO-RESERV...e/254293673499

Second is in Bridgewater :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-940...d/392339194638

The others i found (16 results at time of searching) were either manual, even further away or extremely high prices, or a combination of those.
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Old Jul 17th, 2019, 04:32   #20
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I understand the reluctance to change the heater matrix. Everyone I spoke too when mine went a few years ago had to take a deep breath when you mention its a heater matrix on a 940.
They really are not that bad to do if you are or can find someone handy with tools. Its just a methodical approach. There is a great "How to" on this forum somewhere that Chesh put up. Print it off, follow it and it really is not that bad. Its just time consuming. Cant remember if it says to but if it does not, first thing to do is take out Both front seats and put them in the back(luggage area). You then have all the room in the world to work
The only real issue is that you will not be completely sure of what matrix you have until its out. By all means give the supplier all the info from your car that you have and get it first as its definitely better if you can have the new one to hand as you can just re assemble in the reverse order while its still fresh in your mind.
The head gaskets on these red blocks are a walk in the park to anyone handy with spanners and are not expensive. You will need to do this as has been mentioned in an earlier reply it looks like the source of all your problem, it was just easier for the coolant to escape via the heater matrix than pressure up the header tank.
You also need to flush that KSeal rubbish out as it will block up small water ways etc that you do not want blocking up.
If you are happy with the car then a few hundred pounds will guarantee you that at least two of the common issues with this age of car are sorter for many years to come.
As stated before, you could spend a few hundred quid on another car that appears to be sound, only to find this happen in a few months/thousand miles and you are back to square one.
Good luck what ever you decide.
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