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Study on emissions of electric cars

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Old Apr 17th, 2019, 17:30   #1
gaby
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Default Study on emissions of electric cars

According to the study, electric cars are worse than diesels.
http://www.cesifo-group.de/ifoHome/p...8-Elektroautos
It is a german study...
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Old Apr 18th, 2019, 10:40   #2
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If it's accurate (it's only one study) then I'm not surprised. I've always thought it must be far less efficient to generate electricity, conduct it hundreds of miles, go through various transformers, charge a battery....if we start with 100% at the generator end I wonder what we end up with on the road, maybe 15%? Who knows.

All it seems to do is move the pollution from where the car is to where the electricity is generated and where the batteries are manufactured and then disposed of at end of life.
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Old Apr 18th, 2019, 14:43   #3
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Quite an interesting study.

Btw, energy losses between the powerplant and the consumer are 10-15% on average. Battery charging losses (heat..) are from 15% upwards - depending on charge power (the faster the charger- the higher the loss..). Add to that discharging due to environmental temperature (can go up to 70%..), battery capacity loss (due to age/number of charge/discharge cycles), etc, etc.
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Old Apr 18th, 2019, 16:17   #4
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It is never going to be more efficient, but it theoretically allows the energy generation to be cleaner - either by using renewables (preferably) or by reducing emissions from the generation (e.g. carbon capture).
Neither of these is happening sufficiently yet (particularly in Germany by the look of it), but it's chicken and egg. We have to start somewhere!
Carbon capture on an ICE car is probably unrealistic, beyond catalysers and EGR.
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Old Apr 18th, 2019, 16:28   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylora View Post
If it's accurate (it's only one study) then I'm not surprised. I've always thought it must be far less efficient to generate electricity, conduct it hundreds of miles, go through various transformers, charge a battery....if we start with 100% at the generator end I wonder what we end up with on the road, maybe 15%? Who knows.

All it seems to do is move the pollution from where the car is to where the electricity is generated and where the batteries are manufactured and then disposed of at end of life.
I wonder if they actually use the same process for oil?
Billions in making the technology
Billions in explorations, 90% fail
Millions to 10's of Millions putting an oil rig over the hole, Millions getting it out of the ground,
Transporting it, to refineries, Converting it to petrol / Diesel.
Transporting it to petrol stations.
Using electric to actually put it in your tank.
oh and god knows how much damage to the environment with spills etc.

Yeah Oil is exactly not all that green either to make fuel for cars.
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Old Apr 18th, 2019, 16:45   #6
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That's the process we use to provide the fossil fuel for power stations to generate the electricity to charge the batteries. So yeah, it's even worse than I thought...!
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Old Apr 18th, 2019, 17:13   #7
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Fact: 42% of all CO2 emissions come from electricity generation. Imagine what would (will?..) happen if (when?..) the electricity demand/production doubled, quadrupled?..

Fact: in Germany, for eg, 40% of electricity is still generated by burning coal. Imagine doubling, or quadrupling the demand.

Fact: Making of Tesla Model S batteries produces as much CO2 as an ICE car in 8.2 years of use, on average. And they have a usable lifespan of 4-5 yrs, at best.

Some scholarly articles on this topic:

https://autoweek.com/article/green-c...-pollution-evs

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile....amp/17435.html

Now to be clear- I’m by no means pro-ICE, as much as I’m against-EV. EV hype is costing us time and resources that could be used to develop a more viable, cleaner and sustainable solution.
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Old Apr 18th, 2019, 17:25   #8
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Then there's the subject of emissions as tyres(even on electric vehicles)deposit rubber dust and other detritus (brake dust)on the roads and the electric motors producing ozone so no vehicle will ever be totally emission free.
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Old Apr 18th, 2019, 18:03   #9
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The easiest and most ECO friendly solution would be to ban everything. Then someone would be happy surely!

And an age old saying worth considering whenever you are next reading a report/study is, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. If I've got that wrong please don't bother to correct me.
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Old Apr 18th, 2019, 20:11   #10
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Exactly it all depends on the spin put on the statistics.
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