Buying and transporting road fuel in cans

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

I think the best way to avoid people like that is not to buy the fuel all in the same place. Then they'd be non the wiser.

All the same, did he/she sell the fuel in the cans to you? If they did, then obviously they're hypocrites... i.e., give you a big lecture, but are still happy to take the money.

As far as I'm aware, its unclear how much fuel you can carry in a vehicle in suitable cans. I think its at discretion of the Police as to if the amount you have is hazardous. I could be wrong on that, but I've never heard otherwise.

Storage at home

The rules vary based on the type of jerry can you may be using.

For example, a metal jerry can will hold 10 litres, and motorists are allowed two metal cans in total; a combined 20 litres of petrol.

You are legally prevented to store 20 litres in just one container, meaning you must have two if you wish to carry 20 litres.

Plastic cans however only hold five litres, limiting you to just 10 litres if you only have two plastic jerry cans.

Again, the same principal applies in that you can only have five litres per can.

If you want to combine both plastic and metal, then you can store 30 litres maximum, and it must be a combination of: 2 x 10 litre metal cans & 2 x 5 litre plastic cans.

Every can you use must have a sign or writing on them that states the liquid being carried is highly flammable.

Yes they did sell me the fuel and obviously after I'd done the diesel fill (over 100 litres) I had to go in an pay for that before I started on the petrol.... but there were two staff on duty and initially I was served by someone else.

I've read those rules on the web, and other rules that would say you can have up to 20 litres in metal cans and 10 litres in plastic (but must be approved fuel cans and labelled as such). I've also read, in some places, that these rules apply only to petrol, not diesel. But seemingly no-one can say where these rules from from?

[GrahamBrown1]

I used to work for a garden machinery dealer, we often used to chuck 4 20 litre cans in the back of the pickup and fill up at the local petrol station. They were used for the PDI of new mowers and such. Never a question asked but this was some years ago.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by baggy798

Are you a white guy?

Yes, I do apologise.....

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Whyman

I used to be responsible for a few fuel sites and the law is very clear.

You are allowed to hold up to 30 liters provided that it is in suitable containers without the need for any kind of licence. Might have changed since I retired 11 years ago but I doubt it.

Thanks - but which Act of Parliament is that? I can't seem to find any reference to it on the web?

I've read that you can store up to 30 litres at home - if you wish to hold more then you need to register or license or something.

Just to add to my original post - I'm not taking the fuel home, it is stored in a metal shipping container at my small holding.

When I worked in the motor trade circa 25 years ago the company that I was employed by also had petrol forecourts, though I had no responsibility for them. But what I did know was the signage you see at petrol forecourts saying not to use mobile phones or radios is a statutory notice (i.e. it's a legal requirement to display them) and it is a criminal offence - but strangely that's never referenced on the notices.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Andymharrison

I think this is one of those subjects where nobody knows the law from the guidance.

When we started carrying propane we were told various things from 2 cylinders only, up to 200kg and also 333l.

The 333l may come from a HSE document that says private individuals can carry an aggregate of 333l of dangerous goods as long as all containers are UN type. Many plastic containers aren't.

Next time ask them to call the police and see if they have a clue!

And I think this is the root of it.

Seemingly in this day and age, there are so many "bodies" that make rules and regulations as well as guidance and the average bloke on the street has no chance of knowing how to navigate it.

Just this week a read a case where a chap in our village is in a legal battle with the council - he placed a plastic bag (supermarket carrier bag) of rubbish from his car in the bin at a layby. I think he'd parked up for a bit, and decided to put a few bits of rubbish in his car into a bag and in the bin next to him. The council went through the bag, found letters with his address on it, and slapped him with a £400 fixed penalty for "illegally disposing of household waste". Apparently, it's illegal to deposit household waste in bins other then your dustbin.... How was he supposed to know that?

[ITSv40]

I used to work in local government and did health and safety inspections in schools - for the site staff. I worked in the property team - not qualified in H&S, I was just the monkey filling in a set form of questions as set out by the health and safety officer.

My understanding at that time was: 20lt of petrol could be stored in two separate containers, both clearly marked. Anything over that, needed to be in a purpose built detached store and clearly marked with flammable liquids on the outside of the store. The store, quantity and type of material needed to be registered with the local fire authority.

I've no idea if that was law or just a decree from the H&S officer as best practice.

[ITSv40]

This should tell you all you need to know. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/.../contents/made

[Tannaton]

^^^ That's what I was looking for, and is where the petrol can sizes come from :

A portable petrol storage container must—

(a)have a nominal capacity —
(i)no greater than 10 litres if made of plastic; and
(ii)no greater than 20 litres if made of metal;
(b)have a total capacity between 10% and 15% more than the nominal capacity;
(c)be made of either metal or plastic that is suitable and safe for the purpose and will not significantly degrade due to exposure to petrol or naturally occurring ultra-violet radiation;
(d)be designed and constructed so that—
(i)it is reasonably robust and not liable to break under the normal conditions of use;
(ii)the escape of liquid or vapour is prevented;
(iii)petrol can be poured safely from it; and
(iv)it is not unsteady when placed on a flat surface;
(e)be marked or labelled in a legible and indelible form with—
(i)the words “PETROL” and “HIGHLY FLAMMABLE”;
(ii)an appropriate hazard warning sign;
(iii)the nominal capacity in litres; and
(iv)the manufacturer’s name and the date and month of manufacture.

But no mention of how much you can buy?

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

And I think this is the root of it.

Seemingly in this day and age, there are so many "bodies" that make rules and regulations as well as guidance and the average bloke on the street has no chance of knowing how to navigate it.

Just this week a read a case where a chap in our village is in a legal battle with the council - he placed a plastic bag (supermarket carrier bag) of rubbish from his car in the bin at a layby. I think he'd parked up for a bit, and decided to put a few bits of rubbish in his car into a bag and in the bin next to him. The council went through the bag, found letters with his address on it, and slapped him with a £400 fixed penalty for "illegally disposing of household waste". Apparently, it's illegal to deposit household waste in bins other then your dustbin.... How was he supposed to know that?

You make an interesting point, 'T'. I feel that the application of a little common sense is necessary in situations like this.

You say 'our village', so I'm assuming that the council concerned is your local parish council. I must admit that their action does seem a little Draconian, but look at it from their point of view. Has there been a problem with this recently - large quantities, repeat offences, etc.?

Our PC provides and maintains a number of waste bins throughout the village for the benefit of both residents of, and visitors to, the village. There is a not inconsiderable cost in so doing which is paid for out of their precept. For people to abuse this privilege may be considered antisocial to say the least and can result in an increase in littering in the village.

I know from attending PC meetings as both a member of the public and resident (all are welcome to attend, and there is a period allowed at the start of the meeting for public participation, when matters of concern may be raised) that the problem is by no means confined to your village.

To my knowledge, there have not been any prosecutions, but they do have that power, although it would have to be a very extreme case for it to be invoked. They do, however, monitor the situation when it is brought to their attention, and will take less Draconian action, such as sending a letter to the person concerned if they can be identified, if necessary.

Another difficulty lies in identifying and, if necessary, proving, what constitutes 'household' waste. For example, an empty washing up liquid bottle, especially if included as part of a larger quantity of waste, would almost certainly be considered as such, while a soft drinks bottle of similar capacity may very well not be. It does also seem a little unwise in an age when identity theft is rife to dispose of personal papers in such a way. (We make a point of putting ours in the shredder and then recycling for that very reason!)

As I say, a degree of common sense is needed and most PCs that I know of are reluctant in the extreme to enter such a minefield. Your neighbour might be a little more thoughtful and considerate of others when disposing of his waste in future, and the PC is only looking after your interests as a Council Tax paying (from which their precept is paid) resident.

Your PCs actions do seem to be a bit of an overreaction, but then I don't know the full circumstances or the extent of the problem. Our own PC seems to spend much more time and energy, in conjunction with the police, on drug dealing and fly tipping in secluded places, than it does on waste bin infringement, rightly so in my view. If, like us, you want to live in a pleasant environment, then your PC both needs and deserves your support.

Regards, John.

[GSS]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

Yes, I do apologise.....

For what are you apologising?