Seriously?

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Here are a couple more non-sellers I've noticed as part of my school project. The first one failed to sell at the £1,500 asking price, and now is being tried at auction:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284249267039?ul_noapp=true

... to me it just looks like a pretty knackered 30 year old banger with nearly 200,000 miles, but the seller thinks it is a 'retro old school classic'. Ho hum, we'll see what it goes for, the current bid is £770; maybe it will make £1,200?

The second one has appeared maybe 4 times already (on eBay), I can't remember the original asking price but the seller says he/she is making a final reduction to only £4150:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353447641339?ul_noapp=true

... to me it just seems like another 30 year old banger with nearly 200,000 miles. The seller makes a point about the motor car having a new MoT (as at 20 Feb 21), but only 4 days earlier it failed the test with these major problems:

H549VYG
VOLVO 240
17 February 2021
FAIL
Mileage 184,757 miles

Do not drive until repaired (dangerous defects):
Nearside Rear Brake pad(s) less than 1.5 mm thick (1.1.13 (a) (ii))
Repair immediately (major defects):
Offside Rear Inner Integral body structure or chassis has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting its strength within 30cm of a body mounting sill (6.2.2 (d) (i))
Nearside Rear Inner Integral body structure or chassis has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting its strength within 30cm of a body mounting (6.2.2 (d) (i))
Nearside Rear Inner Integral body structure or chassis has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting its strength within 30cm of a body mounting wheel arch (6.2.2 (d) (i))
Exhaust emits clearly visible black smoke during acceleration (8.2.1.2 (g))
Exhaust carbon monoxide content at idle exceeds default limits (8.2.1.2 (b))
Offside Front Suspension arm ball joint dust cover no longer prevents the ingress of dirt (5.3.4 (b) (ii))
Offside Front Wheel bearing has excessive play (5.1.3 (a) (i))

... so the seller would have us believe he/she got all the welding required completed and the reason for emitting black smoke on acceleration sorted in just 4 days - maybe... maybe not.

So, you may remember the the thesis for my school project was: 'many sellers of Volvo 240s think their motor cars are worth much more than they really are, however this does not apply to historic vehicles'. The estate car above supports my theory in that if it were to be a 1980 or older car is fairly good order (with a MoT and not too many problems) it would make £3,500 easily. The second car (silver saloon car) is (in my humble opinion, because I don't believe the MoT issues were addressed in 4 days) worth £1,500.

I do hope I'm not offending any forum members with my school project - it is just some idle fun, but if anyone objects I'll stop it.

Alan

The blue one is probably about right at the moment, will probably hit £1200 or more by the end of the sale,

The silver one has a couple of ball joints, new set of rear pads, couple of bits of welding and would need a new CTS and possibly air filter then testing with the correct limits for the engine. It's not capable of passing the cat test (despite the fact it has one) so is granted a dispensation to only pass the BET @ 3.5% CO and 1200ppm HC. It's also too old to have a mandatory cat so that could be removed legally and if the emissions are within limits, pass the test.

Re the S/V70 and also S/V90, the latter is the spiritual grandson of mine with the 70 being slightly smaller although a similar bodyshell so the spiritual great-grandson of the RB but the 70 and 90 are both FWD - i'm not keen on post-1996 cars in general so i won't be buying one any time soon either!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The blue one is probably about right at the moment, will probably hit £1200 or more by the end of the sale,

The silver one has a couple of ball joints, new set of rear pads, couple of bits of welding and would need a new CTS and possibly air filter then testing with the correct limits for the engine. It's not capable of passing the cat test (despite the fact it has one) so is granted a dispensation to only pass the BET @ 3.5% CO and 1200ppm HC. It's also too old to have a mandatory cat so that could be removed legally and if the emissions are within limits, pass the test.

Re the S/V70 and also S/V90, the latter is the spiritual grandson of mine with the 70 being slightly smaller although a similar bodyshell so the spiritual great-grandson of the RB but the 70 and 90 are both FWD - i'm not keen on post-1996 cars in general so i won't be buying one any time soon either!

I agree Dave: the blue estate is okay - apart from the low profile tyres - a genuine motor for a bit over a grand I should think.

There is something fishy about the silver saloon - I suspect it is as rough as a badger’s arse under the shiny skin - only a feeling because I don’t think the seller is being candid.

[Laird Scooby]

Definitely agree on the blue one, a nice set of Pholus or Aries wheels would look better with 195/65/15 tyres.

As for the silver one, something in the back of my mind says it was on fleabay as a barn find a few months back?

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Definitely agree on the blue one, a nice set of Pholus or Aries wheels would look better with 195/65/15 tyres.

As for the silver one, something in the back of my mind says it was on fleabay as a barn find a few months back?

You know Dave, there is something about that silver car in the back of my mind also. It has been advertised in its present state a couple of times - but I mean before that, so perhaps you are right about it being a barn find last year? Perhaps (and this is entirely conjecture): the seller bought it as a project during the lockdown (cheaply I should think), did a bit of work - enough to submit it for a MoT test. It failed miserably (the welding would be the big thing), realised it was beyond him so did some more bodging (but I don't think welding - he doesn't mention it) and then found a bloke willing to give it a MoT ticket unseen at a cost (I understand plenty still exist)... then tried to pass it off as a genuine car.

I don't know if any of that is right, but it is more plausible than the seller's current story (bought during the lockdown, doesn't have room on his drive, passed the MoT but doesn't mention the failure...).

I'm curious.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

You know Dave, there is something about that silver car in the back of my mind also. It has been advertised in its present state a couple of times - but I mean before that, so perhaps you are right about it being a barn find last year? Perhaps (and this is entirely conjecture): the seller bought it as a project during the lockdown (cheaply I should think), did a bit of work - enough to submit it for a MoT test. It failed miserably (the welding would be the big thing), realised it was beyond him so did some more bodging (but I don't think welding - he doesn't mention it) and then found a bloke willing to give it a MoT ticket unseen at a cost (I understand plenty still exist)... then tried to pass it off as a genuine car.

I don't know if any of that is right, but it is more plausible than the seller's current story (bought during the lockdown, doesn't have room on his drive, passed the MoT but doesn't mention the failure...).

I'm curious.

The mileage on the fail and pass certificates are the same Alan implying the car was left at the test station for repairs.

Fairly sure he's got an incorrect diagnosis on the fuel guage sender as well. Also doesn't know the difference between tyres and wheels or how to spell "brake" correctly .................

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The mileage on the fail and pass certificates are the same Alan implying the car was left at the test station for repairs.

Fairly sure he's got an incorrect diagnosis on the fuel guage sender as well. Also doesn't know the difference between tyres and wheels or how to spell "brake" correctly .................

Well spotted Dave. In hindsight I have changed my opinion and now think the story runs something like this: chap buys what he thinks is a nice, classic car during the lockdown - perhaps he is bored at home and thinks it will give him an interest. Its MoT has run out or is very short (the previous one was June 2019 - maybe it got extended a bit due to the pandemic). Instead of a nice, easy project the car has heaps of issues but he puts it in for an MoT in February, gives up on trying to fix it and leaves it with the garage. The garage welds on just enough patches to get it through the test, fixes the oily bits and give chap a £2,000 bill for 4 days labour + parts and tax.

The chap then panics and tries to unload the car for what he is in for (probably £5k by now). The fuel gauge still doesn't work (perhaps it never did, but it didn't need to for the MoT), and he still can't spell.

This is just conjecture (for the second time) on my part. If I'm right the result is a car that has had just enough done to it to scrape a MoT pass, much of which will need doing again next year - that is worth £2,000 but has a £4,000 tag. If I'm right I feel sorry for chap, but that is no excuse for trying to unload it onto someone even more unsuspecting.

Just a thought :-(

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Well spotted Dave. In hindsight I have changed my opinion and now think the story runs something like this: chap buys what he thinks is a nice, classic car during the lockdown - perhaps he is bored at home and thinks it will give him an interest. Its MoT has run out or is very short (the previous one was June 2019 - maybe it got extended a bit due to the pandemic). Instead of a nice, easy project the car has heaps of issues but he puts it in for an MoT in February, gives up on trying to fix it and leaves it with the garage. The garage welds on just enough patches to get it through the test, fixes the oily bits and give chap a £2,000 bill for 4 days labour + parts and tax.

The chap then panics and tries to unload the car for what he is in for (probably £5k by now). The fuel gauge still doesn't work (perhaps it never did, but it didn't need to for the MoT), and he still can't spell.

This is just conjecture (for the second time) on my part. If I'm right the result is a car that has had just enough done to it to scrape a MoT pass, much of which will need doing again next year - that is worth £2,000 but has a £4,000 tag. If I'm right I feel sorry for chap, but that is no excuse for trying to unload it onto someone even more unsuspecting.

Just a thought :-(

I think you've earned the "Big Hammer of the Week Award" Alan for hitting the nail well and truly on the head there!

I also think he's trying to cover his losses, i think a better idea would be for him to run it for a year or two then sell with a fresh MoT and meanwhile sort its little foibles then ask a bigger price for it. It's too close to the "painful point" financially for him at the moment to see that though.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I think you've earned the "Big Hammer of the Week Award" Alan for hitting the nail well and truly on the head there!

I also think he's trying to cover his losses, i think a better idea would be for him to run it for a year or two then sell with a fresh MoT and meanwhile sort its little foibles then ask a bigger price for it. It's too close to the "painful point" financially for him at the moment to see that though.

Exactly that Dave - I suspect chap has had to 'fess up the cost to his/her significant other and been told to get rid of that ****** thing. You are dead right, having had a harsh introduction to classic car ownership he/she would be much better off enjoying the car as a running restoration for a couple of years, then it would have appreciated a bit anyway and his/her losses would be much easier to swallow.

It is a pity (for the seller) that MoT history will be available to the public - in the olden days he could have just lost the fail certificate and no one would be the wiser. Now he either has to think of a good cover story or wait a few years until it appears the issues are not going to re-surface. I feel a bit sorry for the chap, but at the same time a bit cross that he is trying to unload it elsewhere.

Ho hum.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I feel a bit sorry for the chap, but at the same time a bit cross that he is trying to unload it elsewhere.

Ho hum.

Funny thing is, now he's had the welding done, if it's been done properly it should last a few years at least.

I would at least get some use/enjoyment out of the car before moving it on so i have the sneaking suspicion he bought it to flip and got bitten. That said i still think you have it right as there isn't much evidence to support my suspicion of a planned flip.

[Wagon Sailor]

I'm sure we've all had cars at that crunch point: should I cut my losses or chuck good money after bad or keep until the memory's less painful?

I've been guilty of the fourth alternative, which is to test the market. Ask silly money: if you get it, fine; if not, hang on to the car.