Turbo T28

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by pyaap

Back to one of the points raised in the article posted on VPCUK, I still can't understand why 1.1bar boost, and nothing more, was the maximum achievable boost with a T28; that certainly can't be right.

Im also wondering this, the standard t28 from what info ive found flows pretty much the same as the 19t, but we need to remember that Iain just has the t28 housing, the insides are modified. Ive been out in Iains car and it holds about 1.1 bar to redline. This dosent sound like a turbo running at its max!!

Just checked the thread again. Iain - looks like turbo technics gave him (volvotuning) a call and helped him out by telling him about the restricter you mentioned last night (wasnt that nice of them), No wonder he couldnt get it over 1bar - doh!!

[Dan F]

Originally Posted by bobcat

Just checked the thread again. Iain - looks like turbo technics gave him (volvotuning) a call and helped him out by telling him about the restricter you mentioned last night (wasnt that nice of them), No wonder he couldnt get it over 1bar - doh!!

Bobcat;
Again you come across with the attitude of making it sound like that is the sort of thing that 'any small child would know'. Did you know that before you were told by someone else?
Why would anyone know a restrictor is needed for a particular turbo unless they are told by the developer of said turbo?
Why should a restrictor be needed at all to enable higher boost on any turbo?
Surely it should be sized and specified correctly in the first place for the engine it is going on? Adding stuff to make it operate differently seems like a bit of a 'bodge' to me.
On a non BCS controlled system, the maximum boost is set by the actuator 'crack open point'. In this instance iirc, that would be 8psi. So it shows the BCS was doing something until 1.1 bar was reached, whereby it would seem, that anything over 1.1 bar was blowing the wastegate open..... maybe?
So, instead of using a restrictor, why not use a differently specified actuator spring?
Even when all that is said and done, this still shows the amount of extra work involved in using a T28, unless you are *determined* to try something different (and why not), that for road car use, £ for £ and for ease of application etc, the 19T is a very good 'fire and forget' upgrade for T5s in general.
Flows about the same as the T28, but none of the setup hassle.
No fannying around with restrictors etc, just bolt the 19T on, and alter the map accordingly! Sounds ideal to me.
Later,
Dan.

[smartbomb]

Originally Posted by Dan F

Flows about the same as the T28, but none of the setup hassle.

Just a couple of small points, a STANDARD T28 flows about the same as a 19T, this hybrid flows considerably more, and at lower boost. And it was no hassle setting it up, I just let TT do all the work

[Dan F]

Originally Posted by smartbomb

Just a couple of small points, a STANDARD T28 flows about the same as a 19T, this hybrid flows considerably more, and at lower boost. And it was no hassle setting it up, I just let TT do all the work

Lol. Fair enough.
I was referring to hassle as far as the installers are concerned of course. I, like you, would have no hassle either way, because I wouldn't be performing the work.
One thing I would like to know, if it flows more (curious, do you have a flow chart? Does anyone know how many CFM it flows?) than a standard T28, why will it not boost past 1.1 bar unless it has a restrictor in the compressor line?

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Dan F

Bobcat;
Again you come across with the attitude of making it sound like that is the sort of thing that 'any small child would know'. Did you know that before you were told by someone else?

Hi Dan,

i didnt actually mean it like that. Its just that vt have claimed that they have worked on numerous projects with hybrids and custom maps etc so i just assumed that they would have known about the restrictor or have been able to deduce that one was needed by bypassing the stock bcs and using another form of boost control for testing purposes, but maybe it was unfair of me to assume that their knowledge extended this far.

Did I know about the restrictor? as ive not come into contact with the t28 hybrid i didnt know one was needed on them, however from working with stuart i know of them and their uses. However it was only when i spoke to Iain that he made me aware of their use on the t28's.

But ultimately, if your going to use a hybrid from a 3rd party then its best to speak to them about it and its applications, and not publish results before your sure the turbo was running as it should and setup correctly, plus to use a car that you have previously described as knackered to evaluate its performance. Common sense should also been used as others have used the t28 hybrid from TT and have easily run over 1.1 bar. I even posted up details of my test drive in aduei's car with the t28 hybrid.

[Dan F]

Originally Posted by bobcat

Hi Dan,

i didnt actually mean it like that.

Hi Bobcat.
Good to hear. If you want people to take your findings seriously you need to be seen to have a modicum of professionalism as to how you put them across.

Originally Posted by bobcat

Its just that vt have claimed that they have worked on numerous projects with hybrids and custom maps etc so i just assumed that they would have known about the restrictor or have been able to deduce that one was needed by bypassing the stock bcs and using another form of boost control for testing purposes, but maybe it was unfair of me to assume that their knowledge extended this far.

Why should another form of boost control, other than the very capable ECU and BCS be even needed to allow these things to work? Ironically, maybe a weaker actuator is what is needed on the hybrid to allow the BCS as much control as it has over the Mitsu turbos, then the boost level can be set in the program with no other devices needed.... maybe?

Originally Posted by bobcat

Did I know about the restrictor? as ive not come into contact with the t28 hybrid i didnt know one was needed on them.

One could use the same argument in VTs favour surely?

Originally Posted by bobcat

But ultimately, if your going to use a hybrid from a 3rd party then its best to speak to them about it and its applications,

And indeed, once VT had spoken to TT, (lol) they knew one would be required and are now going to review their findings in light of this. In fact Adam has stated from the start that if anything was being done wrong he would be the first to put his hands up and re-test. At least it would appear they are prepared to learn about the alternatives.

Originally Posted by bobcat

and not publish results before your sure the turbo was running as it should and setup correctly, plus to use a car that you have previously described as knackered to evaluate its performance.

Not the best of comparisons all things considered....

Originally Posted by bobcat

Common sense should also been used as others have used the t28 hybrid from TT and have easily run over 1.1 bar. I even posted up details of my test drive in aduei's car with the t28 hybrid.

Up until fairly recently Iains car was the only one using this turbo. I am surprised to hear that others now have them, but haven't been raving about their performance if they are that good, as I don't recount anything being said to suggest anyone else had this variant of turbo.

Cheers,
Dan.

[bobcat]

I wouldnt be so sure that they contacted TT!! I know for sure that TT were aware of the article and had been asked by someone else to contact VT to tell them about the restrictor. But hey maybe VT did ring them first, however you would have thought that would have been done first!! so this would lead me to believe that TT contacted them.

[Dan F]

Originally Posted by bobcat

I wouldnt be so sure that they contacted TT!!

Not worried about the pedantry of that particular point, (although it is obvious what you are getting at....) I was just illustrating that VT and TT had communicated and the restrictor advice was given.

So nothing to add to my other points about the technicalities of this turbo, or are you only interested in who rang whom first? Still none of my questions regarding flow, why a restrictor is needed etc, have been answered.

Editted to say that I never even alluded to who was first to contact who, in my posts; But even so, why would that matter one way or the other? (rhetorical).

[WAYNET5ER]

Just one question as i am a member on both sites would all of this got that ugly if it had been used on another website other than VPCUK?! my opinion is no i doubt it would have been a issue,but taken as valuable critiscism,and there would not have been any problems,Just because it was posted on VPCUK everybody jumps on the band wagon as a excuse to slate the club which is very wrong indeed!.We all drive VOLVO`S in case certain people forget and we all have our own way of doing things and all have opinions but it is very petty that people cant take critiscism,regardless were it has come from or what was said.I believe if this was bought up on piston heads or another forum there would not have been so much s***e about it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WAYNET5ER]

Originally Posted by adieu

Ok so i know some of you don't like the way i post or some of the comments i have made in the past.


Below is a link to another volvo site.

Before you go and have a look please be aware that my reasons for posting this are not for personel gain or finacial gain.

It would seem that some people believe they can use others graphs photo's with out thier permission to show a product in a bad light.

The person making the post has made no attempt to contact myself before using the said item.

I believe many of you would want to give permission to another before they use something for thier gain.

Stuart at SW aAuto's wanted to use a picture i posted on these forums and asked before doing so.

Before you start saying it's in the public domain please remember this person knows who i'am and how to contact myself.

http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11723

Sorry rant over

Regards

Iain

But are you not breaking copyright laws themselves buy putting a link to another forum were there is a discusion going that may also contain other graphs from other companies??????? i think so.All i can see from the thread is that it is just a dig at Adam(which he does admit he will put his hands up if he has done something wrong) and also a dig at VT