D5254T (to 2002, Audi) Overfilled sump - bad starting problem

[vincentvg]

My V70 with the Audi lump (70K on clock) has exhibited a bizarre starting problem, only since I got it back from a service.

• Starts well in cold weather.
• Starts well when hot.
• "Stumbles" and misfires occasionally, with accompanying smoke, when starting cool: i.e. after it has stood for a few hours, say, or on a mild morning when the glowplugs aren't called for.
• Runs 100% perfectly once under way.

When I got the car back from service, I noticed that they had grossly overfilled the sump (well over the high mark on the dipstick). They had the car back and removed some oil - but it's still overfull when it's had time to drain down.

The starting problem has never occurred before - and seems to be gradually improving as time goes on.

My theory is that, with excess lubricant around the place, the engine's acting as though it had an over-rich mixture. If the cylinders are hot (either due to having just been run, or due to the glowplugs kicking in), it can cope with the excess "fuel", and starts OK; but when cool, it can't.

The garage dismisses this - but, despite having the car back and checking timing, glow plugs, and looking for injection system air leaks - have not cured the problem.

Does anyone have any experience of this? Obviously The ultimate test will be to remove some more lubricant to bring the sump back to level - but it's a pain!

[RoyMacDonald]

How about asking Kwik Fit to suck a bit out with their machine (through the dipstick I think)

Roy

[BillB]

I don't think excess oil would normally affect the running of the engine in the way you describe. However, it MIGHT lead to oil seal failure due to excess oil pressure and you don't want that because, if the front seals fail, oil could contaminate the cambelt. When you say "grossly overfilled" it would have to be up into the cylinders to maybe upset the engine running - I don't see how anyone with a brain could put THAT much oil in. Who did it as a matter of interest? Regards.

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by BillB

I don't think excess oil would normally affect the running of the engine in the way you describe. However, it MIGHT lead to oil seal failure due to excess oil pressure and you don't want that because, if the front seals fail, oil could contaminate the cambelt. When you say "grossly overfilled" it would have to be up into the cylinders to maybe upset the engine running - I don't see how anyone with a brain could put THAT much oil in. Who did it as a matter of interest? Regards.

My understanding is that the crankshaft can hit the top of the sump oil with excessive overfilling and cause the oil to become frothy, and it's not good for the engine to have an oil/air mix being pumped around the engine instead of pure oil.

Roy

[vincentvg]

Dunno - but it's definitely starting better now that I've put some miles on - it's now only a problem when it's stood for a good long time, AND the weather's too warm for the glow plugs to kick in. Oil level is still high - but not by a lot.

I'm still of the opinion that too much lube may be the cause of the problem. When we first had it back from service it would fire up and then stall immediately - sometimes two or three times; run rough for the first 30 secs or so once underway; and even threaten to conk out when de-clutching at a junction or roundabout. All very un-diesel behaviour! Most of those symptoms have disappeared now after a couple of thousand miles: it just stumbles slightly on first start, maybe once out of five, and improving.

There are warnings all over the place about not overfilling the sump - makes me feel that there must be a good reason!

Service was done by an independent - always been very good before this. It's not hard to overfill with oil - but inexcusable to send it out like that IMO.

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by vincentvg

Dunno - but it's definitely starting better now that I've put some miles on - it's now only a problem when it's stood for a good long time, AND the weather's too warm for the glow plugs to kick in. Oil level is still high - but not by a lot.

I'm still of the opinion that too much lube may be the cause of the problem. When we first had it back from service it would fire up and then stall immediately - sometimes two or three times; run rough for the first 30 secs or so once underway; and even threaten to conk out when de-clutching at a junction or roundabout. All very un-diesel behaviour! Most of those symptoms have disappeared now after a couple of thousand miles: it just stumbles slightly on first start, maybe once out of five, and improving.

There are warnings all over the place about not overfilling the sump - makes me feel that there must be a good reason!

Service was done by an independent - always been very good before this. It's not hard to overfill with oil - but inexcusable to send it out like that IMO.

I think the problem is that the workshops tend to fill and check the level quickly. It then drains down from the engine into the sump. I've noticed that the level rises noticably overnight and then even more if my car is left standing for a couple of weeks. I think the D5 is very slow filler.

[Gazmo]

As youve said there are warnings not to overfill the oil and the capacity should be 6 litres,when i bought my car ( a 97 V70 ) i did an oil change and removed in excess of 7 litres this cured a lot of smoking but i didnt have any starting problems,I do know that Volvo state in there owners hand book that oil can be diluted by the fuel if the vehicle is used for short journeys and the oil level appears to rise and then when the car is taken on a long motorway run it would appear to suffer from high oil consumption because the fuel in the oil has been evaporated or burnt off. If your unsure about the oil quantity take it back and get them to do another oil change but only get them to fill it with 6 litres and see what the level looks like on the dip stick, or what ive done is go to Screwfix and bought an oil syphon pump its a bit of kit that you build up a vacuum in by using a pump attached to the top of a reservoir after inserting a length of pipe down the dipstick hole and it sucks it all out ,NO CRAWLING UNDER THE CAR OR REMOVING UNDER TRAYS NO MESS,and it works really well,then all you do is change the filter,the best bit is it only costs £35

[RoyMacDonald]

I couldn't find one on the screwfix site but found this one.......

http://www.cdet.co.uk/default.asp

And info on using it......

http://www.pelapumps.co.uk/default.a...page=pl2000use

Roy

[Gazmo]

Thats the one i havent got a current screwfix catalogue but im sure its in there in the automotive section

[vincentvg]

This looks like the very thing - and only £6.99! Think I might give it a go

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29430/...l-Suction-Gun#

The car's getting so much better now that the oil level's decreasing, that I was tempted to leave it - but at that price ... I'll post an update when I've sucked a couple of pints out.