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LPG, CNG & LNG - General Info and Issues Share experiences and problems |
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Yet more problems with ClassicswedeViews : 12652 Replies : 43Users Viewing This Thread : |
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Aug 5th, 2012, 18:30 | #1 | |
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Yet more problems with Classicswede
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Some background; a friend of mine owns a rather nice, well kept, immaculately tidy P1 V70 T5. He bought is a couple of years back and has gradually worked his way through it to turn it into a really nice example. It’s had Koni suspension a Rica chip, the interior has been sorted out, the car got a set of reconditioned Propus C wheels with new Yokohama tyres and we fitted an R bumpers front and rear. The final thing on the wish list back when he bought it was to get it LPG converted. The question then was who was this work to be entrusted to? Various people were spoken to, questions were asked and one of these people was Dai. Rick pointed out to him that the car had been chipped and specifically asked whether that was an issue. He was assured it was not. Good news clearly. Dai assured him done loads of them, he is the Volvo LPG specialist, the car would run on LPG perfectly. Just what the man wanted. Consequently a dare was booked and the two of us drove to Wales. First cost 450 mile round trip with my S80 D5 and a trip with the V70 @ 225 miles one way. That was OK though because the car was going to THE specialist right? Read on. The car was to be done in 3 or 4 days, but Rick told Dai to do a really tidy job, make sure the car ran absolutely perfectly. Drive the car round, make sure it is OK. The two of us stood there and chatted to Dai. I specifically asked Dai what injectors he would use. I asked “will you be fitting Keihin injectors as used by Prins?” and Dai answered yes. We had no reason to disbelieve that. After all his price list, edited Jan 23rd 2012 specifically stated Premium kit with high presision (sic) Japanese injectors as used by Prins. We also handed Dai a full gas tank we’d removed from another T5, indeed we had the full system but Dai told Rick the system he’s acquired wasn’t a lot of good and the gas tank very small. Rick was going for QUALITY so he said, fit a new tank. He discussed the price list with Dai and asked about the Prins system Dai offered. He was told “No, use my premium system, same injectors as Prins but a much faster ECU.” Fair enough, after all Dai is the specialist. Three weeks later the (that’s weeks not 3 days as promised) the car was ready. Rick was told Dai wanted a bank transfer before he collected the car and he did so. After all Dai is the specialist. When he got the car back it was indescribably filthy. The interior was covered in sticky ice cream finger prints from very short people, but Rick said nothing about it. After all he had told Dai to use the car. The outside was filthy but the hose pipe ban has been lifted so never mind. Rather less amusingly the rear bumper had been backed into something, but we know how to paint and this would be a cracking job right? ( Running transport total £80 ticket to Holyhead and 225 miles home) Once home the car ran like a bag of nails. It sprang 2 different gas leaks, one because a hose was so short it simply wouldn’t reach and we found a pool of coolant under the evaporator because the hose clamp hadn’t been done up. We were starting to wonder...........Had Rick’s £1340 been bank transferred wisely? We looked a bit harder and we took the car for a test drive. Go to overtake something, kick the auto box down and the LPG system goes Beeeeeep and switches to petrol. We looked a bit harder and found 2 more gas leaks and noticed the injectors were made by HANA; which was decidedly odd as we’d been promised Keihin injectors. A quick Google showed Hana are in Korea and Keihin are in Japan. It also showed us you can buy a HANA injector for £17 whereas a Keihin will cost you £77 give or take. That’s £300 difference on 5 injectors. We looked a bit harder, the ECU promised to be faster and better than a Prins is an Oscar N, and it’s about as cheap an LPG ECU as money can buy well under £100 retail. However neither Rick nor I are LPG specialists so we took the car to a local specialist who posed the simple question “What did you pay for that conversion then mate.” We looked a bit embarrassed and slightly abashed and answered £1340. “That’s £700 quid worth of gas conversion mate, those bits are the cheapest of the cheap. He also told us he’s rarely seen a scruffier job Three of the injectors were just cable tied to a bracket We didn’t want to believe that these components were so bad, so we rang around and the news got no better, ‘utter junk’, ‘ultra cheap’ and ‘useless’ were but a few of the adjectives we got. We looked a bit harder, Dai managed to drill into the fuel tank, the boot panel has had its hinges removed so there is now a large sheet of loose plywood in the back of the car, the installation is horribly untidy and worst of all it won’t run properly. But hey this is a premium conversion and there is a 3 year guarantee so it’ll be fine right? Yeah right..... By this time Rick was rather irate, so I got involved. I asked Dai just what the point was in choosing his premium conversion. After all he advertises his Prins kit for £1650 and his premium kit for £1375. That’s a difference of £275 and just getting the Keihin injectors that come with a Prins kit is worth more than that. Dai’s first response was to deny that he ever offered the Keihin injectors and he edited his price list the same evening to make it so. Korea isn’t Japan last time I looked. Meanwhile he claimed the gas system was fine, the car had an ignition issue. Rick therefore ordered 5 new plugs, a cap a rotor arm and new ignition leads from the dealer. Despite the fact that the ones the car had weren’t very old. That wasted another £200 or so.... Meanwhile the car had been driven back to Wales, (on petrol because it would barely run at all on gas) I spoke to Dai and we concluded that the only reasonable thing to do was fit a Prins system to the car. That would give Rick the premium system and Keihin injectors he’d paid for. Rick, being a reasonable guy, offered to pay the price difference between the 2 kits despite the fact that he’d been given el cheapo injectors but he wanted a solution. The next morning I git a PM from Dai, completely ignoring our discussion and with a price for substituting a Prins kit for his bodge job. Fit Full Prins VSI (not silverline) front end kit Extra equipment cost £425 Fitting £350 Rick declined to give Dai an additional £775 to give him what he’d paid for in the first place, a premium gas conversion. DO NOT GET YOUR CAR CONVERTED BY THIS GUY! That’s my advice. Expenditure so far to get a badly running, untidily converted LPG V70 £1340 for the conversion 1 used gas tank full of gas 1350 road miles Three £80 train tickets £200 worth of unnecessary ignition parts Innumerable phone calls Heaps of fustration Last edited by 940_Turbo; Aug 5th, 2012 at 18:42. Reason: Typo |
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Aug 5th, 2012, 20:45 | #2 |
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940, check out my reply in the other thread
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Aug 5th, 2012, 22:05 | #3 |
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940 _turbo just on a side note i have been looking at the paperwork dai supplied was your invoice made out from classicswede or autogas bitz as i was sure he trades as classicswede
just ask your friend to check his invoice |
Aug 6th, 2012, 20:33 | #4 |
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Aug 6th, 2012, 20:38 | #5 |
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Do those injectors inject liquid LPG direct ( no vapouriser ) or the usual LPG vapour ? would be interested to know .
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My comments are only based on my opinions and vast experience . |
Aug 6th, 2012, 20:52 | #6 | |
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Quote:
You can see it here, lurking under the battery (the silver thing with the big nut on top) |
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Aug 7th, 2012, 19:09 | #7 |
Trader Volvo in my veins
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Yes not good enough and that is why I changed it.
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Aug 7th, 2012, 23:24 | #8 |
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Last Online: Jul 14th, 2013 14:28
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No it wasn't, yet you expect your customers to travel huge distances at their expense to put right your poor workmanship, Rick always accepted that there is inconvenience inherent in going a long distance, you had his car three weeks and still didn't manage to turn out a decent job.
However, that is not the crux of the issue. The issue is that you sold and charged for a premium system with precision Japanese injectors as used by Prins. You supplied an ultra cheap system with Korean injectors as used by you. It simply isn't acceptable. The description is an inherent part of the contract. If Rick had paid you with £50 notes printed on a colour photo copier he couldn't simply claim 'well the look like £50 notes so you damn well ought to be happy with them'. Yet this is precisely the attitude you are adopting. Last edited by 940_Turbo; Aug 7th, 2012 at 23:47. Reason: Typo |
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Aug 7th, 2012, 19:16 | #9 |
Trader Volvo in my veins
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Would you like to show how the boot floor floats around loose?
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Aug 7th, 2012, 19:32 | #10 | |
Trader Volvo in my veins
Last Online: Yesterday 20:52
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Quote:
Yes the problem did later return and that can only be put down to the plugs used. All that had to be done to solve the problem was replace the plugs for the correct type. You can not blame me for the worng plugs being fitted. If you wanted Volvo plugs why not order Bi fuel ones or just follow my advice on NGK plugs? A shame I was given the wrong information about what had been done to the car as I could have just changed the plugs rather than spending out on have everything checked over on it. |
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