Clutch replacement has turned into a nightmare

[djs2772]

this is a lengthy nightmare so please bear with me. any advice would be grateully recieved...................

a couple of weeks ago my S60 broke down (the clutch pedal just went completely limp) and i was quoted £720 for the repairs. money's tight at the moment so i queried the costing and discovered £480 of it was just for the parts (the two clutch plates and the concentric valve cylinder).

i went to the 'parts gateway' website (http://www.partsgateway.co.uk) and after thoroughly checking out reviews/feedback found the clutch plates second hand with one particular supplier. just to double check, i phoned the guy before i made the purchase and asked him to physically get the plates off the shelf and check the condition. he explained that with 15+years of experience in the parts trade he wouldn't have any hesitation fitting them to his own car. i sourced the valve cylinder brand new as the cost was reasonable.

i was informed by the garage that the job would take two days but a week later they were still saying it wasn't ready. eventually (after a 1.5 week wait) i picked the car up and it felt like a totally different car to drive. the symptoms were:

• when letting the clutch out (especially in 1st and 2nd gear) there is substantial shuddering. it's so bad the interior rattles which certainly didn't happen before.

• the clutch pedal initially had just 2inches of movement before reaching the floor. it now has full movement but feels over-light to the point of being floppy.

• Noise from the steering column (squeaky rubber type noise) when steering round 90 degree corner. Also a hissing/hydrolic type noise and engine smell coming from the steering column area

• when excelarating hard, the clutch slips randomly and sometimes delivers only 50% of pick up even though the revs continue to build

• there is a 'clunking' type noise (coming from what sounds like the front passenger side area of the car) when i drive over lumps in the road or a speed bump which wasn't there before

• since collecting the car, for the last three mornings running the engine has had to turn over for 5-10seconds before starting. historically, even in very cold weather starting from cold, it's always fired up first time.

i immediately returned to the garage and took the owner for a drive to demonstrate the problems. as a result, he sprayed some DW40 up inside the steering column which (temporarily) stopped the rubbery squeaking noise when steering but other than that he simply stuck to the line "the clutch plates are 2nd hand, you can't guarentee a 2nd hand clutch. they might be warped".

i although i argued my point well (in a civil manner) i had no choice other than to agree to run the car for a day or so and see if it settled down. however, as you would expect, it still doesn't drive anything like it used to.

i have phoned the guy who supplied the clutch plates and he confirmed that there was no uneven wearing on them whatsoever (signifying they were not warped). he expressed that even if the plates were slightly warped it wouldn't result in substantial shuddering when excelarating. (i should also mention that his extremely sizeable online 100% feedback record which indicates he is a reliable source).

after conducting research on the internet i have discovered that it is necessary to 'drop the sub-frame' in order to carry out the repairs which were done. this would explain the noise/smell coming from the steering column. it appears that one of the seals in the steering column hasn't been replaced properly.

even when sitting in the car when it's stationary with the engine running the vibration/shuddering on the steering wheel/general interior is alot more than it was. even the noise/feel of stopping the engine is significantly different (as well as the 'clunking' noise when driving over bumps).

although i would appreciate advice on any of the points i have raised, my main question is: 'could the excessive vibration/shuddering (when excelarating as well as when stationary) be due to the sub-frame not being returned to its correct postion or not being re-secured properly?'

if this isn't likely to be a contributory factor does anyone have advice on why there is excessive vibration now when there was none before?

i have been back to the garage and the mechanic has agreed to bleed/refill the hydrolics to remedy the 'floppy' pedal issue and will also ensure the seal on the steering column is positioned properly but still takes no responsibility for the more fundamental issues.

as i mentioned at the start, any advice would be MASSIVELY appreciated. thanks.

[Meenrod]

What a nightmare. I hope you get it sorted.

Right, to my mind, if you accelerate hard and experience the revs building but not much happening, then that is a classic indicator the clutch is slipping and needs replaced.

If that is the case, then it stands to reason that the other issue of shuddering is due to a dodgy clutch. The garage is right- if you use secondhand parts then you are at risk. Doesn't matter how many ratings the seller has- second hand clutches are a false economy. Take it back and get a refund.

The clonking noise- definitely check the subframe. The squeaking noise- it's the seal. The garage should be picking this up.

Not starting in the cold- coincidence. It is the coldest it has been for nearly a year, the chances are you would have experienced this issue regardless of the clutch replacement. How old is the battery? Do you leave your car outside at night? Put a blanket over the battery to keep it warmer and see if it starts more easily in the morning. If it does, get a new battery.

Hope that helps and you get it sorted.

Meenrod

[djs2772]

hey meenrod, many thanks for the words of advice. as someone who has no knowledge of this kind of issue it's invaluable to have feedback from a person with more experience.

just to cover all bases in my head....................

if i run with the presumption that the clutch isn't properly up to the job and causing the shuddering when i'm accelarating in 1st/2nd/3rd, would that mean it's also causing the excessive vibration/shuddering even when the car is stationary with the engine ticking over? there's also the issue of the engine making a very different noise from before when i'm turning it off.

in my limited knowledge, i can understand the shuddering occuring when the clutch is being operated (if it is warped/etc) but how would that cause the excessive vibration when the car is at a stand still?

[sneakypenguin]

I remember reading on a post last night about this shuuddering and the guy also had his clutch replaced. I think it turned out the new flywheel was too big, fitting a smaller eliminated this iirc. I'll have a dig and see if I can that thread....

EDIT: Here's the linky, although for a V70

[HughG]

My dad recent had the clutch replaced on his v70 d5, using Volvo parts but done by Mr Clutch who were £600 cheaper than Volvo.

The first time they changed it one of the oil seals wasn't seated properly, and ended up with a contaminated clutch and an engine with no oil in it! The second time they changed it they decided to drop the subframe, in doing so they damaged the master cylinder and caught the clutch line which then also had to be replaced.

This isn't directly relevant but it dud eventually get sorted, hopefully yours will too.

I largely agree with the first reply, however would add that you will get a vibration if the clutch isn't aligned perfectly, or if they've taken it for a rest drive, ragged it and in the process destroyed the DMF, which it doesn't sound like you've replaced?

Best of luck getting it sorted quickly and cheaply.

[david philips]

it is a nightmare from start to finish, seems you have bought a faulty clutch and had it fitted by a less that professional fitter.

the shuttering from moving of could be caused by contamination on the clutch ?

but the main thing now is what to do , first if you payed by credit card or paypal then you are very lucky as you can get your money back and have a clutch fitted somewhere else returning the faulty one to the supplier of it.

if not then its a mater of weather you trust the garage to fit a replacement hopefully at a reducer rate or using another garage in either case returning the clutch for a refund.

[Ringsting]

vibration sounds like a buggered dmf, false economy to source 2nd hand parts like those, sry. you may be tight on cash but now the labour needs to be paid for twice.

[djs2772]

many thanks for all the replies, i really appreciate it. there's some aspects mentioned which sound relevent and some which i haven't encountered any sign of yet.

however, some of things mentioned have made me a bit spooked to be honest. when i first telephoned to enquire about the repair progress i asked if cash or cheque would be acceptable as payment (to which he replied 'yes'). however on the day i picked up the car he would only accepted cash. i'm a pretty streetwise guy in general but for some unknown reason i didnt clock the significance until i drove the car away (by which time it was to late).

also, completely without prompting, while discussing the faults i had discovered the mechanic mentioned that he had checked the flywheel and that i was lucky that particular part didn't need replacing as it would cost £900.

in addition to what i have encountered so far, today (for the first time since i have owned the car) a warning has appeared signalling the coolant is low. i've topped it up and noted the level.

i have arranged to bring the car back to them on tuesday but in all honesty have no trust that they will rectify the situation properly. a family member has a trusted mechanic who they've used for years so i may accept a little extra cost to try and achieve an accurate diagnosis.

thanks again, i will keep this thread going to the bitter end in the hope it will benefit others in future

[y2blade]

bloodyhell......have just read this, sorry I can't help though

I had my replacement (slave cylinder went pop, contaminating the clutch) slave Cylinder, clutch pack and DMF fitted by my local trusted independent using Genuine Volvo parts....they had the car for a day and a half yet only charged 6.5hrs labour (as agreed before hand)


sorry to read of your woes, I hope it gets sorted

[djs2772]

hey all. WELL................... my nightmare is at an end (barring the possibility of anything further developing with my car in the next few days).

it goes without saying that i wasn't going to let this go, so i pursued the outstanding issues with the mechanic. i had arranged with the garage that i'd drop my car with them on tuesday to have the steering column seal properly fitted and the clutch hydrolics remedied.

however, the clunking noise (coming from the front passenger side area of the car) became noticably worse last weekend. my patience was running VERY low by the time i dropped the car off and insisted that whatever was happening should be sorted as a matter of urgency.

i feared the worst when i arrived back later that day to pick the car up only to find them working on a vauxhall corsa with my motor untouched. they assured me that it would be first on their list of priorities on wednesday but i was pretty tense when i arrived again to pick it up.

have they even started work? is it going to be fixed? will it be even worse than it was before? these were the thoughts running through my mind.

you can imagine my shock when i started the engine and it sounded and felt 'spot on'. after a short test drive i found...............

• the shuddering/vibration had completely gone, even when accelarating through 1st/2nd/3rd. in fact the general smoothness of the engine is now even better than before.
  
• the gear stick now moves through all gears very smoothly each and every time
  
• the slipping on the clutch has now totally vanished even when applying full power in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears
  
• there is still slightly more engine noise eminating from the steering column than there was before but it's so minimal i'm happy to let that issue go
  
• the clutch pedal is nice and light but without any slackness
  
• the clunking noise has totally gone

it goes without saying that i'm still feeling more than a little angry at the level of inconvenience/stress this has caused me but just relieved that it's all sorted now. when i asked what was causing the 'clunking' noise, the mechanic replied that he'd found "the gearbox hadn't been sitting properly".

i do fear for anyone else experiencing this type of scenario though. i only managed to get the nightmare sorted by digging my heels in for england. i find it quite worrying that alot of people would have accepted the initial "it's a 2nd hand clutch, what do you expect" response.

while i accept there is an element of risk when sourcing 2nd hand parts, on this occasion i can't speak highly enough of the company that supplied the clutch discs ( http://www.volvosaabbreakers.co.uk/ ). he went beyond the call of duty when advising me on how to deal with the issues i experienced (even though he had little obligation to become involved regarding certain aspects).

many thanks to all who posted up replies here. i hope this thread will one day be of assistance to anyone experiencing similar problems.