Buying / owning a classic estate

[SalvadorP]

This is a bit off topic, but it's curious that several of you said the 960 is more rare than the 940. In Spain the 960 is much more abundant. That's one of the reasons why I was planning on buying a 960, because there were many more deals available so the price is overal lower.

Unless you guys mean 960 estate, especifically. Here there aren't many 200/700/900 wagons available, either 40 or 60.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by SalvadorP

This is a bit off topic, but it's curious that several of you said the 960 is more rare than the 940. In Spain the 960 is much more abundant. That's one of the reasons why I was planning on buying a 960, because there were many more deals available so the price is overal lower.

Unless you guys mean 960 estate, especifically. Here there aren't many 200/700/900 wagons available, either 40 or 60.

Here in the UK the estates seem to have been more popular when new and/or have been better looked after so the used market seems to have more estates. Also the 960 is rarely seen here in either saloon or estate form, my 760 V6 estate was also fairly rare when new with only about 400 (last time i checked) still on the road now. Out of my registration year, there were less than 100 when i checked, however with many "barn finds" and other sources providing cars that have been hidden for several years, that figure might be higher now or just lower as expected due to people percieving them to be at the end of their life due to age, mileage or perhaps accident, major mechanical problems etc.

From what you say, it seems the saloon vaariants sold better in Spain than the estates?

[SalvadorP]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Here in the UK the estates seem to have been more popular when new and/or have been better looked after so the used market seems to have more estates. Also the 960 is rarely seen here in either saloon or estate form, my 760 V6 estate was also fairly rare when new with only about 400 (last time i checked) still on the road now. Out of my registration year, there were less than 100 when i checked, however with many "barn finds" and other sources providing cars that have been hidden for several years, that figure might be higher now or just lower as expected due to people percieving them to be at the end of their life due to age, mileage or perhaps accident, major mechanical problems etc.

From what you say, it seems the saloon vaariants sold better in Spain than the estates?

How did you check how many there were in circulation?

Answering your question. Yes, for sure. The 850 wagon is fairly common though. But most of them are completely trashed. Curiously, a neighboor of mine has a 850T5R in the same exact color of mine. Whenever I can I park next to it because they look great together.
The 760 seems to be, out of the four models, the most rare one. I've seen a few saloons but not many, and never saw a 760 wagon neither on the road or for sale. The 960 saloon would be the most common by far. I tried several before finding the 940 estate. Then there are also several 940 saloons for sale at all times, for ridiculous prices. But they are less common than both 960 and 740 saloons.

Here you can find a 960 saloon for 1.5k, but if you want a 740/760/940 it's like 4k asking price minimum for a NA. If you are talking wagon, there are non for sale. Sure, there are several restored ones "selling" for 10k+€... but none really on the market.
The situation in Portugal seems fairly similar, with the wagon being basically non-existant. I've seen a few 740 for sale, maybe 2, both with steering wheel on the right side and recently registered in Portugal.

[SalvadorP]

[GingerMagic]

Here in the UK I use a site called 'Hiw many left ' - https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/ however I'm sure there would be an equivalent site in Portugal.

[SalvadorP]

Originally Posted by GingerMagic

Here in the UK I use a site called 'Hiw many left ' - https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/ however I'm sure there would be an equivalent site in Portugal.

I'm in Spain. Never heard of a similar website here, but I'm gonna take a look.

[GingerMagic]

Apologies for that mix up - geography isn't my thing....

[Moomoo]

Originally Posted by GingerMagic

Apologies for that mix up - geography isn't my thing....

No bud , Lisbon is Portugal, last time looked!😁👍

[SalvadorP]

Originally Posted by Moomoo

No bud , Lisbon is Portugal, last time looked!😁👍

Oh my, I didn't see I had Lisbon set as my location. Lisbon was indeed in Portugal last time i checked. I'm Portuguese, but I'm living in Barcelona.

I checked and there is no tool to know how many are left neither here nor in Portugal but reports from the field state there aren't nearly enough and the ones that do exist, are way too expensive!

btw, Catalunya is by far the richest community in Spain, so here these cars are also more common than in the rest of the country.

[andij]

Thanks so much everyone! What a load of fantastic insight. 👍

Originally Posted by Steve 940

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Always a balance between condition vs cost, so all I'd suggest is to try to avoid anything with body corrosion as for me, mechanical issue can be more easily sorted than rust issues.
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This aligns with my thoughts too. I'm keen to know the weak-spots for corrosion. As Laird Scooby also mentions "Check the rear end of the sills carefully around the jacking points".

Originally Posted by SalvadorP

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Are you set on a 960 or also looking at 940s?
Are you looking for especific characteristics? Like being an auto/manual?
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I'm certainly looking at 940s. That's actually where my main focus has been.

I am unsure which to choose, auto or manual. I've driven an auto for 10 years now, but the thought of owning a manual again is a bit exciting, especially if it's a turbo as it'll be a more involved driving experience. I used to own a '97 Subaru Impreza 2.0 turbo saloon!! (A phenomenal driving experience.)

As Steve940 mentions, "the 2.3 Turbo is generally viewed as being the 'best'" and that sounds like a familiar trend from the posts I've read and researched.

Originally Posted by SalvadorP

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Be careful, depending on how well maintained this car was, 250k miles can be too much for a 960 engine and auto transmission.
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The mileage of 230,000 sounds rather high for any car, especially if they're not quite as robust as other similar models.

And the 'usual list' is something I'm collating, thanks for your input:
Oil marks on the ground where it's parked
Oil cap sludge (or too clean)
Check for leaks on head gasket
Check for leaks at the rear main seal
960 multi-link assembly
... the list will grow

The RobertDiy YouTube channel looks extensive! Thanks for the tip, I'll spend a load of time there soon no doubt.

Originally Posted by SalvadorP

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If you want a tank from mid to late 90s, a Turbo Redblock like a B230FK or B230FT with an M90 (manual tranny) is the way to go.
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I've heard the Redblock mentioned a lot and the different gearboxes, so I'm slowly getting a better understanding what model numbers relate to which.

The concept of owning a 'tank' does very much fit with my ideals.

I stumbled across this YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uevZcFGG0U and a few other videos on his channel which are quite interesting as I'm learning from scratch.

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

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check how it sits when you first arrive, should be level. If the back end sags, when you take it for a test drive, do about half a mile (not much more thogh) and stop somewhere level and check it again, should be level by now - if not it likely needs new Nivos on the back. They are expensive and difficult to find.
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This I gather is related to the 960 (and later models 850s etc.) and their rear suspension configuration and self levelling technology. So it'd be great to use this technique to check if it's working properly and how to identify if it's failing.

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

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unless you're really sure about the first one you see then view a few first.
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I'm certainly keen to experience a few that are on the market to get an idea of how they shape up in real life.

Originally Posted by wrinkles

Co for a late 940 Ihave had mine for 9 years it passed mot again on tuesday with no advisories as it has since i got it in 2013

A great commendation indeed. And after 9 years of ownership and you're still excited about it passing it's mot as there are still no advisories! It would be remarkable to own a car that consistently doesn't let you down. It sounds like a good owner can reap these kind of rewards.

Originally Posted by StanC

Having owned my 960 3.0ltr 24v saloon for 25 years, I would offer the following:

1. The suspension bush replacement can be expensive - check out the cost.
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The suspension in the 960 sounds like it could be a bit of a burden albeit a technological improvement on other models.

Originally Posted by wrinkles

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1. As SalvadorP says, the B6304 engine is VERY sensitive to meticulous, regular servicing, particularly oil and filter changes. The Volvo 850R had the five cylinder turbocharged version of this engine, which was used by many police forces, and they typically used to do an oil/filter change every 4000 miles.
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If a 25 year old car with 230,000 miles has undergone meticulous and consistent servicing and oil changes every 6 months of it's life I would consider it almost a miracle. So in reality any affordable 960 example is quite likely to have not had this level of attention.

Originally Posted by capt jack

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From experience of my 1997 S90 3-litre auto:
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Wow! What an incredible detailed summary of things to observe and personal experience of ownership. Thank you so much! (Read the full post!)

Originally Posted by GingerMagic

Firstly I find the autobox lovely to drive, it's effortless albeit a little clunky from time to time, the engine is smooth but needs a few revs to get moving compared to the lower end grunt of a diesel ( I should imagine this is the same for all petrol cars? )

The seats are proper comfy, the rear seats are a doddle to fold down and a 6'6" door just about fits inside.

Brakes are good, the handbrake is very good compared to what I was used to as well.

Turning circle is excellent, and the cars doors seem a little smaller than other cars so squeezing out of the car in a small parking space is easier than my 406 ( although this could be my imagination.. )

All the electrics work..!

My only gripe is the wallowing suspension, maybe it needs attention but it passed the MOT okay - as already mentioned it's an old design and modern cars are so different with the set up - it's fine to drive round town and it's great on long journeys but don't go chucking it down country lanes.

I'm well happy with mine - it needs a little tinkering here and there but it's 25 years old now and I don't mind a few 'quirks'

Plus, the support on here has been great.!

It's these kind of details that help to reaffirm that I've found the right choice of classic to own.

Thank you again everyone for your comments

Oh, and I found a link to this: Buying A Used Volvo 700, 900 or 90 Series Car on the VOC website.