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Using Aisin ATF oil

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Old Oct 28th, 2020, 15:52   #21
gmonag
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Here we go again - this old-wives-tale about flushing the gearbox doing harm.

Flushing an engine with old oil can cause problems, but not a auto gearbox. The fluid in the gearbox is constantly circulated through all the galleries, the torque converter and the cooler. There is a filter in the sump (not servicable) which will catch debris. There will only be debris if something is broken internally.

The flush method (so called Gibbons method after a member who posted it here a few years ago) is the official method as described in VIDA. It is simple and quick to carry out and will change almost all the fluid on one go. Do it and your gearbox will improve!

The only equipment you need (apart from normal spanners etc) is a length of clear pvc hose, 5cm of garden hose and a funnel.

I can go into more detail if you wish
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Old Oct 28th, 2020, 16:28   #22
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Here we go again - this old-wives-tale about flushing the gearbox doing harm.


The flush method (so called Gibbons method after a member who posted it here a few years ago) is the official method as described in VIDA. It is simple and quick to carry out and will change almost all the fluid on one go. Do it and your gearbox will improve!
That is for a NEW gearbox!

Seriously, i have no axe to grind here but don't want people to use a method that HAS BEEN PROVEN to cause problems on older boxes of various makes. Why do Volvo continue to use it on higher mileage cars? For the same reason as all manufacturers do, they know sooner or later a seal will fail inside the box and necessitate a new gearbox - you can almost hear them rub their hands in glee at the thought of it!

It's NOT an old-wives-tale and how many old wives do you know that change their own ATF?

The debris comes from the natural wear of clutch packs (in one of mine) and brake bands (in the other) wearing because they are friction material. This causes dust, some of it metallic and this will ultimately settle at the lowest point through gravity. Using the sump-dump, preferably with an electric oil transfer pump down the dipstick hole with the car raised so the point where the diptstick enters the box is as low as possible, to remove the old fluid means more of that sediment/debris will be removed - there is a neck round the drain plug on many gearbox sumps which means the debris sits around the drain plug.

Something we both agree on though, old fluid is one of the biggest enemies for an auto box.
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Old Oct 28th, 2020, 16:36   #23
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Just on that theme, I've seen images of engines that have been run without oil changes where the cack build up (stop me if I get too technical!) is very visible.

Is there anything similar for a failed autobox showing the build-up which is being discussed?
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Old Oct 28th, 2020, 20:45   #24
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...Using the sump-dump, preferably with an electric oil transfer pump down the dipstick hole with the car raised so the point where the diptstick enters the box is as low as possible, to remove the old fluid means more of that sediment/debris will be removed - there is a neck round the drain plug on many gearbox sumps which means the debris sits around the drain plug...
The flush method begins with draining the sump.
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Old Oct 29th, 2020, 00:01   #25
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If it helps I tried both methods on my gearbox last year when it was failing and there was an immediate improvement after both ways of changing the oil but not for long.

The oil that came out was burnt and full of debris which turned out later after a rebuild was the clutch packs had completely burnt out.

But I don’t think either method is bad for it but if the damage is already done then no method will ultimately help.
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Old Oct 29th, 2020, 00:30   #26
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If it helps I tried both methods on my gearbox last year when it was failing and there was an immediate improvement after both ways of changing the oil but not for long.

The oil that came out was burnt and full of debris which turned out later after a rebuild was the clutch packs had completely burnt out.

But I don’t think either method is bad for it but if the damage is already done then no method will ultimately help.
There's a few things that can cause that, what box was it?
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Old Oct 29th, 2020, 00:39   #27
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I was under the impression that the reason not to do a "gibbons" jobby was purely so that you do not force any debris into parts it shouldn't reach, but once you've done a sump dump, added new and let that circulate for a time, then a "gibbons" is beneficial......
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Old Oct 29th, 2020, 00:45   #28
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I was under the impression that the reason not to do a "gibbons" jobby was purely so that you do not force any debris into parts it shouldn't reach, but once you've done a sump dump, added new and let that circulate for a time, then a "gibbons" is beneficial......
Not if it's high mileage, sump-dump every time but if it hasn't been done for a while, a sump-dump once a month for 2-3 months then once a year.
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Old Oct 29th, 2020, 00:47   #29
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There's a few things that can cause that, what box was it?
It’s my 56 plate 185 6 speed it made 180000 miles I bought it on 113000 and done a lot of stop start so that’s what probably did it.

It was still driving but slipping constantly.
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Old Oct 29th, 2020, 01:09   #30
Laird Scooby
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It’s my 56 plate 185 6 speed it made 180000 miles I bought it on 113000 and done a lot of stop start so that’s what probably did it.

It was still driving but slipping constantly.
Sounds suspiciously like a combination of stop-start driving and lack of maintenance i.e. fluid changes that killed it. Surprised it uses clutch packs but not the clutch packs i'm more used to that replace the job of synchro rings in a manual box. No planetary gear sets in the box i've got with clutch packs!.
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