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2004 S60 2.0T cutting out issue - throttle body question

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Old Dec 4th, 2021, 22:59   #21
Troy McClure
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To keep updated, for those that are interested, have a similar issue or can shed any more light...

- The broken hose from crank case to oil trap pictured above has now been replaced - thanks Stuart for pointing me in the right direction here. Sadly did not resolve, but had completely broken down so worth replacing regardless.

- Took car to be smoke tested (or more accurately, undergo a "stage 1 diagnosis") by a local diagnostic specialist. Also plugged into VIDA at the same time. Split hose found downstream of MAF, no leaks found after this. Was hopeful this would resolve, but sadly usual symptoms were back within 15 miles.

- Went back to same specialist plugged the MAF into an oscilliscope. Readings were confirmed to be slightly low so replaced with a new Bosch unit today. Unfortunately another false dawn, still no improvement to symptoms. Purge valve system also checked but seemed to be ok.

Pending another trip back to the specialist, I'm really at a bit of a loss. Nothing has cost a huge amount so far, but seems as though I'm going down the path of throwing parts at it (plus the cost of diagnostics) which I really didn't want to do.

The next logical step will be throttle body or PCV. Both are a pain to access under the inlet manifold so I would expect it makes sense to replace both at the same time. Problem being, a genuine Bosch TB plus PCV system will be £300+ before fitting... potentially a few hundred quid down the drain with no guarantee of repair.

Any ideas before I do this?

As a secondary question, assuming I do replace, are the following parts correct?:

Breather pipes - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284553491...YAAOSwAuNW4VkM

Oil trap - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363528374...sAAOSw41xXPZ8O

Throttle body - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234314183...0AAOSwgxxhqClK

Thanks if you're still reading!
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Old Dec 5th, 2021, 01:17   #22
barrybritcher
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check it's got the right plugs fitted. is it a 54 plate?
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Old Dec 31st, 2021, 21:21   #23
Troy McClure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrybritcher View Post
check it's got the right plugs fitted. is it a 54 plate?
Finally had chance to get back to car issues and the forum, so sorry for the radio silence. The plugs are the correct Bosch Iridium ones and were only recently fitted. Issue was there before and after so I don't think it's plugs.

Interestingly it hasn't stalled for quite some time or thrown any error codes. It's either as a result of the work to date OR a couple of longer journies with minimal WOT have helped average out the LTFT so that it doesn't spike them every time I do put my foot down.

The issue is still there in some form however, as STFT still shoots up to 25 under load without fail. Idle and part load seem to be ok for now.

I took the throttle body off today and gave it a good clean. Internals look fine, I did just spray the contacts with electrical cleaner too just in case.

Sadly no luck, but it a) rules something else out and b) will hopefully extend the life of the body.

O2 sensor has been mentioned but hopefully going to rule out a vacuum leak (again) with another smoke test early in the new year. That said, following some reading on the matter I'm led to believe a vacuum leak would cause issues at idle - which I don't appear to have at the moment - so not sure how fruitful this will be.

So in summary:

- Idle and part load seemingly ok, but STFT still spikes under load/at WOT (i.e. running lean on throttle)
- Work to date is service inc plugs & filters, new breather hose, 1x vacuum leak fixed, new MAF and a cleaned out throttle body

Any further ideas pending smoke test/O2 sensor replacement?
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Old Jan 2nd, 2022, 22:15   #24
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I've been playing around with the Torque app again today and found some useful data I hadn't used before. Rather than looking at fuel trims to measure how lean it's running, I've instead looked at actual AFR.

Nearly all the time in normal driving it's close to 14.7:1 (good). At WOT however it's nearer 17:1. Not horrendously out when compared to stoich BUT it should be running rich at WOT by my understanding - something like 12:1. Even with STFT at 25%, to me that sounds like it's running in the region of 40% leaner than it should be. Can't be good for the engine.

Also interesting that the other car I tested this in (admittedly not a Volvo) goes open loop when approaching WOT. The S60 stays closed loop all the time other than when off throttle. Any significance in this?
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Old Jan 3rd, 2022, 23:06   #25
barrybritcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Finally had chance to get back to car issues and the forum, so sorry for the radio silence. The plugs are the correct Bosch Iridium ones and were only recently fitted. Issue was there before and after so I don't think it's plugs.

Interestingly it hasn't stalled for quite some time or thrown any error codes. It's either as a result of the work to date OR a couple of longer journies with minimal WOT have helped average out the LTFT so that it doesn't spike them every time I do put my foot down.

The issue is still there in some form however, as STFT still shoots up to 25 under load without fail. Idle and part load seem to be ok for now.

I took the throttle body off today and gave it a good clean. Internals look fine, I did just spray the contacts with electrical cleaner too just in case.

Sadly no luck, but it a) rules something else out and b) will hopefully extend the life of the body.

O2 sensor has been mentioned but hopefully going to rule out a vacuum leak (again) with another smoke test early in the new year. That said, following some reading on the matter I'm led to believe a vacuum leak would cause issues at idle - which I don't appear to have at the moment - so not sure how fruitful this will be.

So in summary:

- Idle and part load seemingly ok, but STFT still spikes under load/at WOT (i.e. running lean on throttle)
- Work to date is service inc plugs & filters, new breather hose, 1x vacuum leak fixed, new MAF and a cleaned out throttle body

Any further ideas pending smoke test/O2 sensor replacement?
yea but if you swapped like for like plugs they still might be wrong.
some engines need long neck plugs - normally if you have grey connectors on coil pack
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2007 Volvo S60 T5 SE 2.4 Geartronic (Sold)
2008 Volvo V70 D5 SE Sport Geartronic (Current)
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Old Feb 15th, 2022, 00:11   #26
Troy McClure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrybritcher View Post
yea but if you swapped like for like plugs they still might be wrong.
some engines need long neck plugs - normally if you have grey connectors on coil pack
Finally had a look at the invoice from Euro... took some finding but the plugs are PLFR6A-11 per NGK's website recommendation. Reach is 26.5mm so should be the correct ones?

Thought the parts to date had collectively resolved this to a usable point - i.e. no longer stalling... however I think a lot of "light" driving in traffic = no WOT = no chance for LTFT to spike... and stall.

Foot flat to the floor on a sliproad last week, car choked and stalled while doing 70. That's a new one. Garage seems baffled by it still.

Against original plans I'll continue to replace parts, provided none of them are overly expensive. Next up is a front O2 sensor, genuine Bosch per the MAF to rule out any cheap parts playing havoc.

Pending this, I'd be really grateful if anyone with a P2 (preferably the 2.0T) and Torque/another OBD app could plug in on their next journey and post any of the following:

- STFT under load (ideally 40mph+)
- Whether fuel system goes closed loop under load - mine remains open unless off throttle
- How quickly fuel system goes closed loop from cold. Mine was open until coolant temp was just 8c and about 50m down the road then switched over - surely that's too soon?!

Thanks to anyone still reading.
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Old Feb 15th, 2022, 00:28   #27
barrybritcher
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DM me the vin and I'll check what engine code is
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Old Feb 15th, 2022, 00:35   #28
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Also looks like you've never done the glove test to determine pcv status ?
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Old Feb 15th, 2022, 22:55   #29
Troy McClure
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Thanks Barry, PM with VIN headed your way.

I've put a glove over the PCV, performs as I'd expect, i.e. very light suction (no inflation).

This was only at idle however, thinking I should probably try the same under load given that's when issues occur...
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Old Feb 15th, 2022, 22:59   #30
Troy McClure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrybritcher View Post
DM me the vin and I'll check what engine code is
PM was headed your way, but I don't have the required 30 posts... if you message me, hopefully it'll let me respond.

Thanks again.
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