Starter won’t turn.

[jackotom]

Hi,I own a 1991 Volvo 940se.
I had to call the AA out as when I turned my car off because the starter motor became noisy and smelt like it was burning, the car would not restart and the AA man said the solonoid was burnt out so I got a second hand starter which I was told came from a running car but when I connected it to the car it would not work as though it was not getting any power,
Does anyone know what the problem could be?
Thanks Dave.

[tower]

Originally Posted by jackotom

Hi,I own a 1991 Volvo 940se.
I had to call the AA out as when I turned my car off because the starter motor became noisy and smelt like it was burning, the car would not restart and the AA man said the solonoid was burnt out so I got a second hand starter which I was told came from a running car but when I connected it to the car it would not work as though it was not getting any power,
Does anyone know what the problem could be?
Thanks Dave.

I think there could be quite a few problems. firstly the starter motor may not be working. Otherwise it's probably going to be the electrical connections / control for it. Check there are no obvious disconnections. I presume when you turn the key there is some kind of loud click noise, but just the engine just doesn't crank at all?

Wiring diagrams for the connections and relays, and the associated ecu control which might prevent the engine from starting should be found here. Note left or right might depend on which hand drive your car is...? http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com

But Ive never replaced a starter motor on a volvo so hoping someone here could be of more use to you.

[aardvarkash10]

You can waste a lot of time and money throwing parts at a problem you don't understand so here's an idea - go to an auto-electrician or competent mechanic and get it looked at.

The first thing a competent trady will do is take the old starter apart to identify what went wrong. It sounds like it may have stayed "in mesh" and thrown itself to bits. This can indicate problems outside the motor itself that need ot be eliminated.

All said in love and in the spirit of Volvo-ness.

[canis]

Originally Posted by jackotom

the AA man said the solonoid was burnt out

Did the second-hand motor come with a solenoid attached? They're usually a small cylindrical thing stuck to the side of the cylindrical motor. Sometimes they're removable, sometimes not.

Originally Posted by jackotom

when I connected it to the car it would not work as though it was not getting any power

Obvious things first. There are two wires involved: 1) A huge red one going directly to the starter motor proper from the battery positive. 2) A smaller one going to the solenoid, this is the one which controls everything. This should go live when you turn the key to position III. Make sure they're both connected properly.

Originally Posted by jackotom

Does anyone know what the problem could be?

Other things to check: Do the panel lights dim when the key reaches position III? Are any relays clicking? Do they click once, or repeatedly?

If none of that works, ask again.

[Laird Scooby]

I agree with Ash on this one, it sounds like for whatever reason, the old starter stayed in mesh and has burned out as a result.

The question is why! Has the ignition switch gone faulty so it was constantly feeding the starter? Is it automatic and the inhibitor switch has also failed allowing the starter to turn when it's not in P or N?

Or was it good old fashioned dirt on the starter shaft and the pinion simply couldn't move back, holding the solenoid in mechanically which would result in the starter running continuously.

Has the ring gear on the flywheel/driveplate been damaged by this episode?

Either way it looks like the "new" starter has to come out to allow inspection of the ring gear and bench testing of the starter.

There are questions that need answering on this that unless someone who has a really good understanding of car electrics is on hand to answer, it's going to be difficult to answer via the forum so i also suggest you find a competent auto-electrician. Not a mechanic who "knows a bit" or your mate down the pub who will do it for a pint but an auto-electrician.

Sorry if that sounds a little sarcastic, it's not meant that way, it's meant to make the point the only way you're going to get this sorted is by using an auto-electrician who knows his stuff.

[canis]

No, all that stuff could be diagnosed and fixed at home with a very basic toolkit, two lengths of wire and a spare bulb. But hey - it's not my money.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by canis

No, all that stuff could be diagnosed and fixed at home with a very basic toolkit, two lengths of wire and a spare bulb. But hey - it's not my money.

You're missing the point i think - without any disrespect to the OP, if he has to call out the AA to diagnose a duff starter and/or solenoid, he's almost certainly not going to know the diagnostic procedure with two bits of wire and a bulb!
He's also unlikely to have a growler in his garden shed or anything to measure insulation with or know how to use either.

Then there's the testing of the starter pinion and its one-way clutch, checking the ring gear - the list goes on!

[TheLeeds]

Originally Posted by jackotom

when I connected it to the car it would not work .....

Did you test it before fitting to the car ?
I usually do it with a pair of jump leads. The negative one from the body of the starter to the negative on the battery, the positive to the spade terminal on the solenoid. If it's any good, this should make the solenoid throw, and if it gets that far, the solenoid cap should connect power to the motor windings and it'll spin. A good one might even jump off the floor when it spins.

The solenoid wire is a possible culprit. Have you tested to see if it gets power when the ignition key is turned ? If not, check the actual wire. I've had cars (not Volvos) where this wire has become hardened with age and heat, and then given up the ghost entirely. If there's no power coming to the connector at the end where it goes onto the solenoid, follow it up the loom a bit and see what the wire is like.

Other questions.

Has the car got an immobiliser ?
Is that likely to stop it cranking ? (depending on which system if at all).

If it's just a dead solenoid wire and you absolutely have to get the car going, you could try connecting positive power straight to that solenoid terminal and see if it spins.

[aardvarkash10]

Originally Posted by canis

No, all that stuff could be diagnosed and fixed at home with a very basic toolkit, two lengths of wire and a spare bulb. But hey - it's not my money.

yeah it can, if you know what you are doing and the implications of each outcome. Our OP doesn't appear to be in that category. Uncertainty has a price as does time.

[canis]

Fair enough, but the OP didn't actually say he needed the AA to diagnose the fault, he called them because he couldn't start the car and obviously has roadside assistance. He'd be silly not to call them.

He seems to have managed to swap the starter motor, so evidently has at least some mechanical capability. He asked for ideas what is wrong. I answered that question with a request for more information. Simply "take it to an electrician" isn't really advice worth asking for in a forum. I'm sure he's already aware that option exists. One tends to tackle these jobs oneself when experts are prohibitively unaffordable.

He might have a very technical mind for all we know. I don't disagree really, an auto-electrician will have a full post mortum and repair very swiftly. But if a few simple checks can save what might be make-or-break for continued ownership of a huge family asset in the run-up to potentially the most expensive time of the year, then I'm inclined to help if I can. It's just my nature. Sorry if that offends.