CoC without emission values?

[SalvadorP]

Furthermore, if they don't "know" the emissions of the car, how do they know it complies with the EU normatives it is supposed to comply with?

One thing is to not contain certain irrelevant info, another is to not contain one of the key aspects of its purpose.

[tofufi]

Originally Posted by SalvadorP

Furthermore, if they don't "know" the emissions of the car, how do they know it complies with the EU normatives it is supposed to comply with?

One thing is to not contain certain irrelevant info, another is to not contain one of the key aspects of its purpose.

At the time the vehicle was built, this information was not mandatory for the CoC.

I wouldn't be able to definitely say (without researching) that the CO2/fuel economy testing referenced in the Volvo documents are done to the same procedure that a more modern car would be.

Vehicles built prior to (approx) 2017 were tested under the NEDC cycle. Vehicles since then will have been tested under WLTP drive cycle, and the same car tested in the two different ways would get different emissions values.

In the same way, it's possible that the numbers recorded in 1997 may be a different test procedure (and therefore result) to those intended to be recorded on the CoC in 2024.

If the rules have changed, the vehicle will still comply with the requirements it was intended to when built, but not necessarily the newer legislation.

I work primarily in vehicle safety so don't know for certain what changes were made in emissions legislation nearly 30 years ago!

[SalvadorP]

Originally Posted by tofufi

At the time the vehicle was built, this information was not mandatory for the CoC.

I wouldn't be able to definitely say (without researching) that the CO2/fuel economy testing referenced in the Volvo documents are done to the same procedure that a more modern car would be.

Vehicles built prior to (approx) 2017 were tested under the NEDC cycle. Vehicles since then will have been tested under WLTP drive cycle, and the same car tested in the two different ways would get different emissions values.

In the same way, it's possible that the numbers recorded in 1997 may be a different test procedure (and therefore result) to those intended to be recorded on the CoC in 2024.

If the rules have changed, the vehicle will still comply with the requirements it was intended to when built, but not necessarily the newer legislation.

I work primarily in vehicle safety so don't know for certain what changes were made in emissions legislation nearly 30 years ago!

Supposedly in 97 it would have been NEDC. I don't need the values to be according to the WLTP test. I just need the coc to say the values that the model was tested for at the time it got approved to be released on the european market.
Either way. You said older format coc's didn't have section 46, right? But in the coc they sent me the section 46 is partially filled in. Like in the picture I posted there are some values, just not all, and not the global co2 emissions.

[tofufi]

Originally Posted by SalvadorP

Furthermore, if they don't "know" the emissions of the car, how do they know it complies with the EU normatives it is supposed to comply with?

The CoC is just a statement that the vehicle complies with the type approval, which would have been valid at the time.

It can't confirm that a vehicle meets requirements to which it wasn't originally intended to meet.

[SalvadorP]

Originally Posted by tofufi

The CoC is just a statement that the vehicle complies with the type approval, which would have been valid at the time.

It can't confirm that a vehicle meets requirements to which it wasn't originally intended to meet.

But would a car be approved in 1997 without co2 emissions testing? And why does it contain some values, but not all?
Not necesserily asking you. Just throwing questions that pop up. This is confusing.

Everything I read proposes 2 scenarios only. Either the car is approved and the emission values in the coc must be used. Or the car is not approved and you need to do the full homologation process. By deduction, one can reasonably assume that a car which the values were not taken/measured, would not have been approved. I think.

I guess I will have to read the Euro2, 94/12/EC (& 96/69/EC) norm to clarify whether or not I am right.

[tofufi]

Originally Posted by SalvadorP

Supposedly in 97 it would have been NEDC. I don't need the values to be according to the WLTP test. I just need the coc to say the values that the model was tested for at the time it got approved to be released on the european market.
Either way. You said older format coc's didn't have section 46, right? But in the coc they sent me the section 46 is partially filled in. Like in the picture I posted there are some values, just not all, and not the global co2 emissions.

Just because it is NEDC, doesn't mean the test is 100% identical. There were revisions to the NEDC legislation over time.

You're correct that section 46 was not included. As you can see from the template, the information which IS completed on your 2024 CoC was present on the original 1997 CoC under item 36.

The information missing on the 2024 CoC was not ever present on the original 1997 one.

[tofufi]

Originally Posted by SalvadorP

But would a car be approved in 1997 without co2 emissions testing? And why does it contain some values, but not all?
Not necesserily asking you. Just throwing questions that pop up. This is confusing.

The testing would have been conducted

The CoC you have obtained is a duplicate of that provided when the vehicle is new, and as such only contains the values on the original one.

On the original CoC the emissions (NOx etc) values were required, and are on the duplicate one.

On the original CoC the CO2 values were not required, which is why they are not on the duplicate one.

[SalvadorP]

Originally Posted by tofufi

The testing would have been conducted

The CoC you have obtained is a duplicate of that provided when the vehicle is new, and as such only contains the values on the original one.

On the original CoC the emissions (NOx etc) values were required, and are on the duplicate one.

On the original CoC the CO2 values were not required, which is why they are not on the duplicate one.

I see. Well. I will wait and see what Volvo tells me. I guess within a few days I will know whether they will make a coc with this info or if I have to find another way.

Thanks for the help James.

[SalvadorP]

According to the link you posted, I went and read all versions from 97 onwards, one by one, the first version athat included 46.2 and looked like it looks nowadays was in the year 2000.
So I guess all cars prior to 2000 will have original coc's without the emission's section as we know it today.

The question remainds whther the companies have to fill in all the info that is known about the model and is required by the coc, or if they are only supposed to print you the coc as it was originally.

I don't expect volvo to go test the model to make sure it complies with current norms. But if the value is and was known at the time, and it is required by the current form of the coc, why couldn't they include it!?

Anyways, let's see what they do/say.

[Forrest]

I was intrigued by your figure of 244g/km and concern about future taxation regimes. In the UK, most cars over 40 years old are free of annual road tax. A legacy system is likely to remain in place until at least 2041 whereby cars first registered prior to March 2001 pay one of two rates dependent on whether their engine size is above or below 1,549cc. For Volvo 940s (above 1,549cc) this means a current annual tax bill of £325.

A different system is in place for cars first registered between 2001 and 2017. This is based on CO2 emissions. This has 13 tax bands and, if relevant, the 244g/km would put the 940 into band L with an annual bill of £675.

The regime for cars registered after 2017 has a standard annual rate of £180 for most cars although it heavily penalises more polluting vehicles in their first year. This is a rare example of UK eco-tax not being regressive.

When importing a car into the UK the CoC is not required for vehicles more than ten years old. However, if the emissions are not verifiable, even if the car is 2001 - 2017, the DVLA will sometimes put it onto the old tax regime based on engine size. This is clearly a disadvantage for a car with low CO2 emissions but, it seems, a big advantage for a larger, more polluting car.

It seems that Volvo first started (voluntarily) producing CoCs for new cars from 1995. They only became mandatory after January 1998.

Sorry, not directly relevant to your question beyond further sympathy for the need to negotiate a complex and ever-changing tax minefield.