Amazon: Amazon cooling system

[Sharpractice]

Has anyone experience of using Evans cooling fluid in an Amazon please? It works well on other classic cars but I have been warned off it on the Amazon.
Thank you in anticipation

[Rustinmotion]

Originally Posted by Sharpractice

Has anyone experience of using Evans cooling fluid in an Amazon please? It works well on other classic cars but I have been warned off it on the Amazon.
Thank you in anticipation

I think it’s a benefit on cooling systems without expansion tanks, my Alfa always pushed water out of the overflow in stationary traffic and eventually would go very hot, using Evans classic it stopped doing it and behaves perfectly
I cannot think why one engine design over the other would have problems.
it’s not cheap and other than not expanding when hot has no other benefits from good regular coolant

[grumpydad]

Hi
can you tell us why
whats wrong with good old blue antifreeze and water

Thanks

[Derek UK]

When the water pump, rad and thermostat is OK the system works perfectly. My Estate can sit indefinitely in traffic or the garage ticking over without the needle going up more than a degree or so. Why change a good thing. Leave the Evans to non water pump cars like Jay Leno's thermo syphon Oldies.

[blueosprey90]

In my vintage MGA race car, I am not allowed to run antifreeze because if it gets on track, it is extremely slippery and a danger to other racers. I considered using the Evans waterless coolant, but decided against it for reasons that I no longer remember. I opted to use a product called No-Rosion and have been quite satisfied. They have two versions, one for cast iron engines (redish hue) and one for aluminum/alloy based engines (blueish hue). In terms of rust protection, it is very good - at least after several seasons and system drains for the winter. About the only solids that drain out of my engine now appear to be a few fine sand grains left over from the original casting. Water-Wetter is another alternative.

[142 Guy]

First off, I understand the racing requirement for non glycol coolants. You probably dropped the Evans idea because Evans happens to be 100% glycol / propylene glycol / ethylene glycol depending on the particular Evans product. Clearly, the Evans product fails the no glycol rule. Distilled water with Water Wetter or whatever anti corrosion package you want is the way you have to go. Pure water will also provide superior heat transfer from the engine.

The Evans product is designed as 100% glycol base. Evans notes that the product has a very high boiling point (> 375 F) which is why they can probably make the claim that it eliminates boil overs. The very high boiling point has the rather nasty side effect of reducing nucleate boiling in the head (nucleate boiling is desirable) which is critical to getting good heat transfer from the head metal to the cooling fluid. When you purchase conventional non premix engine coolants, if you carefully read the fine print on the back they typically recommend against exceeding a coolant / water concentration of 60%. Higher glycol concentrations elevate the boiling point. This may reduce or eliminate boil over; but, has the perverse effect of elevating the head metal temperature at the same time. The B18 and B20 engines with high compression ratios are already detonation prone and elevating the head metal temperatures is the last place you want to go. You can read here about the effect of Evans Coolant on head temperatures

https://www.norosion.com/evanstest.h...0be%20achieved.

Note the impact on required octane rating. Also note the effect of the elevated head temperature on valve recession on engines that have not had hardened valve seats installed.

Higher water concentration will improve heat transfer away from the engine; which should reduce head metal temperatures; but, the higher water concentration also drops the boiling point so you may increase the risk of boil over if your radiator is impaired by scale or corrosion and you can't get rid of that heat. If you suffer from boil overs Evans Coolant might eliminate the boil over problem; but, have other negative effects. My preference would be to address the cause of the boil over rather than hide it by using Evans Coolant.

Being 100% glycol base, the Evans product should eliminate corrosion issues.
My preference is go with a conventional coolant mixed with distilled water and use the highest water % permissible for the expected temperatures (don't want to crack the radiator by having the coolant freeze) in line with the guidance on the labels. The high water content insures good heat transfer from the head. Flush and replace the coolant every 5 years to make sure the corrosion inhibitors remain active.

[Ron Kwas]

RiM;

Maybe the Evans hi glycol content product doesn't expand quite as much as the normal glycol/water mix, but if coolant was being lost out the overflow, I suggest your Alfa Rad was overfilled and did not have a sufficient volume for expansion...

Source: http://www.sw-em.com/Cooling_System.htm
...an expansion volume was necessary in Cooling Systems with no Expansion Tank for this very reason!

Cheers

[Rustinmotion]

Originally Posted by Ron Kwas

RiM;

Maybe the Evans hi glycol content product doesn't expand quite as much as the normal glycol/water mix, but if coolant was being lost out the overflow, I suggest your Alfa Rad was overfilled and did not have a sufficient volume for expansion...

Source: http://www.sw-em.com/Cooling_System.htm
...an expansion volume was necessary in Cooling Systems with no Expansion Tank for this very reason!

Cheers

On the Alfa I’d have to disagree as once the initial overfill had been expelled you would be left with the correct fill but in reality it lost more to the point it boiled over (spent a few hot summers in traffic with the heater on full and widows open, this is a rebuilt engine with all water galleries cleaned, new water pump and a re cored radiator, the only thing I changed is coolant and it’s never happened again, it’s been in there 4 years never lost a drop. That said it’s a pain to live with as anything involving the coolant system has to be drained and re used if anyone topped it up with water it’s lost most of its good properties
For me I don’t see any negatives except cost I run it in the Alfa and don’t use it in the Amazon so take what you will from that

[142 Guy]

Originally Posted by Ron Kwas

RiM;

Maybe the Evans hi glycol content product doesn't expand quite as much as the normal glycol/water mix, but if coolant was being lost out the overflow

Ron

The volumetric expansion coefficient of ethylene glycol is actually higher than that of water.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/c...ts-d_1262.html

I didn't go looking for the expansion coefficients for the other glycol blends that Evans uses. What is significantly different is the boiling point. Ethylene Glycol boils at approximately 198 C at atmospheric pressure so, twice that of water. I think Evans advertises that their boiling point is a nudge lower than that. So, if your engine overheats the ethylene glycol will expand and if it expands beyond the space available in the cooling system it will just burp a little coolant out. You will not get a boil over. The engine will have to get really stink'n hot to get to the Evans coolant to boil which would result in a 'boil over'. If your engine ever got to the point that the Evans coolant went into a full boil I expect that the oil would be so hot that you would probably have a lubrication failure or the engine would be detonating like crazy under load..

I expect that the problem with Rustinmotions Alfa might be that the radiator may be undersized or the radiator airflow insufficient to handle the cooling requirements of the engine at slow speeds / stop and go traffic resulting in the conventional coolant mix entering a boil condition .(50:50 coolant mixes boil around 120C - 125C at atmospheric pressure). Vintage Italian cars were not meant to be driven slowly**. The higher boiling point on the Evans coolant suppresses boiling during these conditions. The Evans might suppress boil overs; but, I expect that the cooling system operating temperature will now be running slightly higher than they were before.

** As I recall, the Jag XKE, particularly the later 12 cylinder versions were known for boiling over in slow speed traffic. Fitting a pile of electric fans on the radiator was a popular retrofit. Sounded like a giant vacuum cleaner when the fans kicked in at idle.

[Sharpractice]

Thank you for your contributions. What a knowledgeable group you are!
I have found on what I would call 'hot' engines including my Jaguar Mark II 3.8 and Austin Healey 3000 that they needed a cooling fan as well as the standard MOE cooling system. Both car's engines had accumulated a fair amount of corrosion in the blocks and heads and when I replaced the radiators both had a lot of debris affecting their efficiency. When I changed to Evans they ran much cooler and when tested, the radiators have no debris in them suggesting that Evans is better at avoiding corrosion/oxidization in the engine. However, both are six cylinder engines which may have something to do with the heat issue? The Amazon 122S is a very recent purchase and hence the question. Given that you all have first hand experience of running this model I will take on board your advice and stick to water with antifreeze. Any recommendations for the best type that inhibits rust/oxidation in the block and head?