Flashlube Oil or Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil

[hancym]

I'm going to have my XC90 T6 converted and will probably have a lube system fitted, just in case. My question is this, do I actually need to use Flashlube oil or would Putoline or similar fully synthetic 2-stroke oil be just as acceptable? All the installers have to recommend that I don't of course in order to maintain the quality of their installation.
2-stroke oil is a superior lubricant designed to lubricate the internal parts of the engine that are far more stressed than a T6 and its designed to burn clean with no ash etc.

[capt jack]

Absolutely do go with the LPG installers recommendations. Use anything else and you risk invalidating their warranty - which could end up being an expensive experience.

You've a valuable car there, and the work you're having done won't be cheap, so why take any risks?

Cheers

Jack

[hancym]

As I understand it the lube system is not entirely essential on the T6 and as it had 86K miles on the clock there will be an element of natural lubrication from the engine oil as the valve seals would have weakened a little. I don’t do more than 10k miles a year so any additional cost will push my financial breakeven point closer to 3 years.

[classicswede]

There are a few makes available
Dexter
Green Add
Flashlube
V-lube
JLM
Vap

do not use 2 stroke oil or any other oil as it will soot up the lambda sensors and block the cats.

[hancym]

Just worked out that using a lube system would fundamentally add a maximum of £0.02 per litre on my fuel bill. Does anyone know if it essential on the T6 engine?

[capt jack]

FWIW my belief is that as a general rule, pre-Ford Volvo engines (ie: 2001 and earlier) don't need any additional lube system, but that with post 2001 (ford-era) engines then it is highly advisable to have the system fitted.

If I may make an observation, if you're only doing 10,000 miles per year, are you sure it's worth doing an LPG conversion?

With a car of the complexity and power of an XC90 T6 it's going to require a top-notch system fitted and set up by someone who really knows what they are doing. Anything less and you will have running problems. The combined fuel consumption figure for that car is around 23 mpg. You should budget for that to fall to 18mpg on LPG. At present prices that's 25p per mile on petrol, or 19p per mile on gas. If you conversion costs £1800 then that's going to take 45,000 miles just to recover your costs, and twice that to say you've made a significant saving. If your conversion costs £1250 (and that's abig 'if') the payback time will be 32,000 miles.

In other words, at best, and assuming that the price of LPG relative to petrol stays the same as now, it's going to take between 6 and 9 years ownership for you to see an appreciable saving.

The real winner will be the guy who buys your low-mileage LPG-converted T6 from you in 3 years time, and benefits from cheaper fuel bills.

An LPG conversion does not add to the re-sale value of a car. You will probably find it difficult to trade it in because many traders don't like the idea of LPG. And if the conversion work isn't done to the highest cosmetic standards too, then you'll rapidly devalue the car. That means a filler cap sprayed to match the car's colour, it means a discreet and neat control switch installation, it means a tank installation that is not at all intrusive, and it means engine-bay work that looks like a factory fit, and not like a spaghetti after-thought.

And don't forget that the tax difference between LPG and petrol is set to close over the years, pushing out even further the likely payback time on your car.

If you were driving 30,000 or 40,000 miles a year then LPG would be well worth it. I'm a big LPG fan, but at your sort of mileage I honestly don't think it's worth it.

Cheers

Jack

[hancym]

• I don't buy a car every day so will keep the car for at least 6 or 7 years.
• It may be that we do more miles as the Wifey is from Wales and we live in Norwich.
• I've found a guy to do it properly both cosmetically and technically.
• If I sell the car, I'll remove it all and keep the system to put on the next
• I got the car for at least £2k cheaper than current market prices so I have the money to spend and still not push it over its resale value.
• If petrol goes up and up in price (as it will do as sure as death and taxes) I’m banking on the fact that as LPG is a friendly fuel it will keep its price gap significant enough to make it worth while.
• I’d rather spend the money now as I’m 50 soon and the thought of working another 18 years is scary sh*t so will look to retire asap on little money rather than work the remainder of any good year I have.

Also, my spread sheet based on my actual current MPG says I'll get payback at 2.17 years. I can live with that. A few trips running firends to airports for holiday and the odd trip to France for the weekend and that will pull it in even further.

[capt jack]

Fair do's and good luck with the conversion.

Two thoughts:

Firstly, on the subject of transferring LPG kit from one car to another, this will cost up to half the cost of fitting the system new. There's labour x 2 to think about (removing from one and fitting and setting up another), plus some components (pipework, some wiring etc) will need to be replaced.

Secondly, on the point of the fuel price differential, please do take note. Going back 6 or 76 years when I had my V70 converted, LPG cost around 40% of the price of petrol. Now the cost of LPG is nearer to 60% of that of petrol.

I would not be surprised to find in a few years time that the cost of LPG has risen to nearer 80% of that of petrol.

The last Govt were committed to a reduction year on year in the difference in duty between LPG and petrol, which means that the level of duty on LPG at the pump will increase faster than the level of duty on petrol.

The price of LPG is linked to the price of domestic gas, not petrol. This is why LPG gets more expensive in the winter, and a bit cheaper in the summer. Also, the pump price of LPG is much slower to react to market changes than is petrol. This works both ways of course, but the reductions are never as big as the increases that preceded them!

Six or seven years ago LPG was less than 30p per litre, and petrol around the 70p to 72p mark. This gave for a typical 2.5 litre Volvo a pence per mile cost of 5p for LPG and 12p for petrol. This meant that you recouped the capital cost in around 22,000 miles.

Also at that time, for motorists wanting space, pace, grace and economy, good diesels were hard to come by, especially second hand. Now of course, there are huge numbers of very good second hand diesel cars around. Whereas a few years ago a nice diesel commanded quite a price premium over it's petrol equivalent, with so many diesels on the market that simply isn't the case now.

I'm a big fan of LPG, and I've benefited hugely from an excellent conversion, however the LPG market has changed, is changing, and will continue to change, and it's only fair to point that out to anyone considering an LPG conversion now.

Good luck

Cheers

Jack

PS: As indication of a shift in attitudes, before my car was converted I asked Volvo UK what they're view was. 'Cracking idea' they said then 'it could affect any Volvo-backed warranty, but we're aware that a lot of Volvo owners go down this route'. At the time of course, Volvo sold factory-converted LPG cars.

When last in our local main dealers, I was told that Volvo's line now is that the won't take LPG cars in part ex, and would discourage anyone from converting. Then and now I don't really mind what Volvo think, but it does indicate a shift in attitudes. J.

[classicswede]

Originally Posted by hancym

Just worked out that using a lube system would fundamentally add a maximum of £0.02 per litre on my fuel bill. Does anyone know if it essential on the T6 engine?

Yes it does need a valve lubrication system but if it was my own car I would opt to change the lifters.

[classicswede]

Originally Posted by hancym

[LIST]
[*]I've found a guy to do it properly both cosmetically and technically.

Just want to make sure you are not going to Mark who fits Fema from Turkey