Does anyone have ever disassembled the LPG distributor?

[CNGBiFuel]

Sorry, I do remember one bloke I sold a stepper motor to was telling me to get at this using a 10mm spanner to undo the dist. rubber mount. Loosen the gas distributor from the engine block. This allows you to move the dist. slightly to the right. Then you can get to the stepper 3mm Hex. You do not need to take out the rad. Hope that helps.

[volvotwofortyfive]

Originally Posted by CNGBiFuel

Sorry, my er.. attempt at humour may not translate. And I think you do a better job with English than I ever would with Italian, so my apologies.

That thing really is in a 'nice' position. I had heard it was awkward but never have I worked on one. I have worked on the ECM and steppers. But on my test bench. I am an electronics engineer working on hydrauilic control systems, so the Necam unit is similar to these systems.

I feel sorry for you.
Mine is a three minute job. You would only want to strip yours down once. Looks like a 2-3 hour job or more. I am guessing it is easier to remove the radiator than the inlet manifold, but I may be wrong. There is advantage in removing the manifold, in that these cars need their PCV breather system replaced at 100,000+ miles. This is also found under the manifold.

I do know the distributor is held on via 2 x rubber mounted bolts. If you can get to these maybe you get more space. But your knuckles, not mine.

I can see why you will fight for a chemical solution, I would too. Only as said, I think your chances of this being successful are not good.

Originally Posted by CNGBiFuel

Sorry, I do remember one bloke I sold a stepper motor to was telling me to get at this using a 10mm spanner to undo the dist. rubber mount. Loosen the gas distributor from the engine block. This allows you to move the dist. slightly to the right. Then you can get to the stepper 3mm Hex. You do not need to take out the rad. Hope that helps.

No problem with slang, don't apologize!!!
The pack of radiators creates a problem, I should empty R 134 of AC and the water of cooling system. The manifold removal foresee the disassembling of petrol rail and LPG injectors, plus other devices (debimeter): I remember when once I removed the manifold (during head gasket replacing) wasn't easy: ever the same space problem...

The two rubber mounted bolts it's a very good idea: I tried just one time to remove them but I stopped because the wrench has really few space for rotate (it's strange, in a such spacious engine compartment ...!!!).
The solution you propose seems to to be actually the most viable, I only have to search for a proper key for bolts with a different handle.


Anyway, yesterday I made a test...
In the morning I bought an injector cleaner for PETROL; at lunch time I unplugged the LPG pipe feeder from filter, I poured 10 tablespoons of cleaner in the pipe and remounted it.
I started the engine in PETROL mode and I immediatly stopped the engine when it switched in LPG mode.

After a couple of hours I started again the engine in petrol mode.... When I have switched on again the engine in LPG mode a dense smoke has flown from exhaust pipe: it smelled like a candle soon extinguished (burned wax), the engine has coughed but in a few second has burned the cleaning liquid and quitted smoking. I went at home without engine cut off.
This morning the engine, once started, has switched immediatly in LPG mode (instead of waiting the usual 30 seconds), the idle was at 1500 rpm (instead the usual 750....) and the sound was different (a hollow sound); the "behaviour" was very rough and responsive.
On freeway I could appreciate a "new car", it reached a torque, speed and acceleration never experimented before. At the moment no cut off, let's see on way back home... and let's hope....
It's obviously too early to tell anything, but I wanted to keep you informed.

P.S.: you said than on manifold there is a PCV breather system: what is and how can I recognize it?

Thank you!

[CNGBiFuel]

Injector cleaner for PETROL is ideal. The LPG cleaner I think is the same stuff, but twice the price. Injector cleaner for PETROL works for me.

If cleaning has made that much difference then you have 50/50 chance of being lucky. The dirt in there was loading the stepper, and messing-up your smooth running. You have found the cause, now all we need ask is, 'Has it damaged the stepper?"

I am convinced that you do not need to remove the manifold, I had forgotten, but I have heard from two reliable people now that you don't need to do this. Be careful not to wreck the rubber mounts with too much force.

There are 3 or 4 things that kill V70 P1s. PCV is a whole other subject, it is a V70 P1 killer. I think P2 as well. Along with a Gibbons Flush to your P1 or P2 Autobox, if not done this will send your car to an Italian scrap-pile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEZzqyu2a6c

My post on the subject. I can assure you, my knowledge of Necam and PCV is as good as you'll find. You don't need to take the inlet manifold off for Necam , but you should soon to look at your PCV.

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=252505

[volvotwofortyfive]

Originally Posted by CNGBiFuel

Injector cleaner for PETROL is ideal. The LPG cleaner I think is the same stuff, but twice the price. Injector cleaner for PETROL works for me.

If cleaning has made that much difference then you have 50/50 chance of being lucky. The dirt in there was loading the stepper, and messing-up your smooth running. You have found the cause, now all we need ask is, 'Has it damaged the stepper?"

I am convinced that you do not need to remove the manifold, I had forgotten, but I have heard from two reliable people now that you don't need to do this. Be careful not to wreck the rubber mounts with too much force.

There are 3 or 4 things that kill V70 P1s. PCV is a whole other subject, it is a V70 P1 killer. I think P2 as well. Along with a Gibbons Flush to your P1 or P2 Autobox, if not done this will send your car to an Italian scrap-pile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEZzqyu2a6c

My post on the subject. I can assure you, my knowledge of Necam and PCV is as good as you'll find. You don't need to take the inlet manifold off for Necam , but you should soon to look at your PCV.

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=252505

Hello,
many thanks for the link and for your kind and generous assistance!
I did the test and luckily the glove, at the moment, immediatly deflates .
Watching some picture I made during the substitution of the whole engine, I could note that there are many differences between the engine on youtube and mine, probably because the video is referred to a turbocharged engine.
Furthermore I confirm that your suggestion to remove the two bolts on rubber blocks is the most easily viable in order to check the stepper motor condition.
Let's see what will happen after this first washing to the LPG distributor...

Just for curiosity: how the raw deposit of LPG (non burned) may damage the stepper? Is it so viscous to be able to bend the shaft or generate other huge damages?
On your experience and statistic, how long a stepper motor usually live?

[CNGBiFuel]

Glad the rubber mount idea works. i was pretty sure it would. Lubricate the stepper piston with GT85, PTFE not silicon or kill your cat. converter.

LPG leaves deposits called 'heavy-ends' in the distibutor slots. These clog and add more load to the stepper. Will not bend shaft, will load motor. There is a trip circuit that means the motor will not move if the current goes too high, but this does not alwasy work. Thus the motor can get damaged or is left too far open or too far clsoed. This bogs your engine. Poor running, low power, and fuel consumption.

How long do steppers last? I can't answer, becauuse almost all that i've seen are killed by heavy-ends, ie lack of cleaning. So I only see the bad ones. In these conditions not much over 50,000 miles (about 65,000km?) or as long as it takes for the heavy-ends to build-up. Thus motor is only as good as the clogging (or lack of)

Kept clean, or if the owner is lucky, I would think far longer. Put an LPG/CNG filter in the pipe between the vaporiser/regulator and the distributor (i think 16mm ) for about euro 10.

PCV, that video is shown on an 850, so a guide only. If your glove is drawn in, you're OK. Now flush your ATF if you have an Toyota auto-transmission. I have a large bet that it is black, and will kill your box. Use 3309

[volvotwofortyfive]

You really are a mine of tips and good practice!!!
Speaking about maintainance, a couple of months ago I changed the LPG filter, located between vapouriser and distributor, as you exactly said. In the occasion of the substitution of the engine, we changed also the gearbox's oil (manual box), but I remember we used the prescribed oil.

This morning the engine had again a cut off phenomenon (just one, instead of the usual 3-5 per track...). Once I arrived in job's parking lot, I did again the cleaning procedure: now the difference is the cleaning time of 5 hours instead of the 2 of previous experiment.
Usual initial cloud of smoke and now it seems to run good but.... I don't want to say it loud....
Anyway, if the problem will happens again, it will be tima to buy a pack of GT85!!!!

Since the car burned a concentrate dose of cleaner and produced a lot of smoke, as I have a quarter of hour I think to re-do the cleaning of exhaust system/cat: six month ago, using a small vacuum pipe on engine intake manifold, I made slowly aspire to the engine 250 cc of distilled water. The vapour cleans the cat and you feel a positive difference in the performance.

Many many thanks, CNGBiFuel for all, I hope it will works... Otherwise I'll ask you a new stepper!!!

[CNGBiFuel]

If I am correct then sorry, no amount of GT85 will fix your issue.
In simple terms, the dirt made your stepper work harder to do the same job. Thus it got fried as it got hotter than it should. It was cooked.

If it still cuts out, you need a new stepper. Damage from over-heating of stepper has already been done. If the cut-out you got was within 1 minute of running, you can ignore. You are OK. The stepper needs to synch with the ETM (if you have one) and the ECM. The first cut-out is caused by this synching. Escpecially if you had it sloshing with fluid?! Once synched no cut-outs.

If you have manual transmission, they are far more tolerant of fluids. Less to worry about.

I have never heard of cleaning a cat like that. I will Google this.

[volvotwofortyfive]

Effectively in the second test of this morning I have almost filled the whole feeding pipe.... Coming back home, fortunately, no cut off occurred and the drive was really fluid and relaxing.
If you want to "Google" the exhaust system washing, try with "decarbonization of engine" (or something like that). Beware!!!: you will find those who believe and those who demonize the system. Before I believe in something, I try it... and this system satisfied me, the only caution is to inject water very slowly, in this way it's possible to void the switch off of the engine.

[volvotwofortyfive]

Post Scriptum: I've seen in a certain videos that people nebulize water BEFORE of throttle body: it's possible that it can break, much better to use one of small pipes for vacuum coming from intake manifold after throttle body.

[CNGBiFuel]

OK, will look. I have heard of something called the 'Italian tuneup' and it works.