ECP oil

[alftuper]

Thanks I might stick with helix in that case

[volvoid]

Id be astounded if I could tell the difference between engine oils while driving.
I can tell the diffrence between old dirty oil and new clean oil, just by starting the engine.
Better IMHO to use a cheaper oil (to spec) and change it then an expensive oil and leave it in with increasing dirt, soot and muck.

[cheshired5]

Originally Posted by volvoid

Id be astounded if I could tell the difference between engine oils while driving.
I can tell the diffrence between old dirty oil and new clean oil, just by starting the engine.
Better IMHO to use a cheaper oil (to spec) and change it then an expensive oil and leave it in with increasing dirt, soot and muck.

At the prices ECP charge, a decent oil doesn't really count as expensive anymore.
£1-£3 a litre difference on a 6 litre change isn't bank breaking.

[alftuper]

Originally Posted by volvoid

Id be astounded if I could tell the difference between engine oils while driving.
I can tell the diffrence between old dirty oil and new clean oil, just by starting the engine.
Better IMHO to use a cheaper oil (to spec) and change it then an expensive oil and leave it in with increasing dirt, soot and muck.

Thanks good point the ecp oil is about half the price of shell decision decision!

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by volvoid

Better IMHO to use a cheaper oil (to spec) and change it then an expensive oil and leave it in with increasing dirt, soot and muck.

First of all I would be very careful about using very cheap engine oils made by companies that are either new or relatively unknown. The Acea specs are based on self certification and there is no real oversight, so that means some oils could be lacking important additives that keep the block clean or provide a protective layer to reduce metal to metal contact wear that occurs during cold starts in particular.

Changing the oil and filter too often does not reduce engine wear, it increases it. A new oil filter is far less efficient than a dirty one (Debris reduces the effective size of the tiny holes in the element) and new engine oil contains a high level of active detergents that will attack the old layer of protective anti wear or friction modifying additives faster than a new layer is deposited for about the first 1000 miles. That's because heat is needed to bake a new layer on.

Oddly enough my own used oil analysis results show better top end wear figures (Iron, Aluminium and Chromium) from a 17K km (More than the max recommended figure) oil change interval than a 10K km one.

Obviously you do need to be very careful doing long oil change intervals if you don't check the final results, particularly if the engine has a DPF that is contaminating the oil with diesel fuel.

PS: About the only difference between different engine oils that you can detect by listening to a diesel is viscosity. Thin oil makes a warm diesel rattle more.

[GP1]

Originally Posted by skyship007

Changing the oil and filter too often does not reduce engine wear, it increases it. A new oil filter is far less efficient than a dirty one (Debris reduces the effective size of the tiny holes in the element) and new engine oil contains a high level of active detergents that will attack the old layer of protective anti wear or friction modifying additives faster than a new layer is deposited for about the first 1000 miles. That's because heat is needed to bake a new layer on.

Debris within an oil filer will reduce the flow over time, however, this only applies if you've dirty contaminated internals to start with, so according to the above all new engines with regular services must have very inefficient filters.

Whilst some oils contain many additives to maintain a clean and well lubricated parts, which brands contain cleaning detergents that attack old oil for 1000 miles and then must remain dormant within causing no damage?

Out of interest which brand of oil do you use?

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by GP1

Debris within an oil filer will reduce the flow over time, however, this only applies if you've dirty contaminated internals to start with, so according to the above all new engines with regular services must have very inefficient filters.

Whilst some oils contain many additives to maintain a clean and well lubricated parts, which brands contain cleaning detergents that attack old oil for 1000 miles and then must remain dormant within causing no damage?

Out of interest which brand of oil do you use?

It's only new filters that are not efficient. For example typical figures for a new filter might show that it stops 97% of 20 micron particles, but stops 99% after 10K km. So the new filter is passing 3 times more debris than the dirty one. If you read the advertising for oil filters they only quote the dirty filter efficiency figure for obvious reasons.
There is no reduction of oil flow rate with a dirty filter (Although some top end engine parts or the turbo could suffer from reduced flow due to long term varnish deposits), it only reduces if the oil pump intake screen blocks up with sludge. If an oil filter blocks it contains a pressure relief valve, so even then the oil flow will continue.

All engine oil use the same type of detergent additives (Mostly Calcium based compounds), although the amount does vary. The negative effects of changing the oil too often is slightly worse with oils that contain a lot of detergents, like Mobil 1. Those detergents do get used up as the oil ages.

I use Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 or Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech 5w40. They both produce the same good oil analysis figures. I'm only fussy about which oil I use if an engine has a turbo, as it's very important that the feed line does not suffer from varnish deposits and good additives do make more of a difference to turbo bearing life than the other engine bearings.

If I had to use an oil that has restricted levels of Zinc based anti wear additives for a DPF equipped diesel (Acea C or E) I would definitely use half a can of Liqui Moly Ceratec additive,as it was designed for such use. It contains both Moly (Mo) and a special form of Boron Nitride that form an extra protective ant-wear layer.

[GP1]

Originally Posted by skyship007

All engine oil use the same type of detergent additives (Mostly Calcium based compounds), although the amount does vary. The negative effects of changing the oil too often is slightly worse with oils that contain a lot of detergents, like Mobil 1. Those detergents do get used up as the oil ages.

I use Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 or Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech 5w40. They both produce the same good oil analysis figures. I'm only fussy about which oil I use if an engine has a turbo, as it's very important that the feed line does not suffer from varnish deposits and good additives do make more of a difference to turbo bearing life than the other engine bearings.

In both new/used petrol & Diesel's I've found Shell to be one of the oils oils that doesn't get used much, whereas Mobile 1 and Castrol (to name a couple ) Tdi's burn no end, do you consider the more detergents within an oil the more likely they are to use oil?

Shell are the only company to produce there own containers for their oils so as the manufacturing process is carried out to their satisfaction, hence one reason why they are normally slightly more money i guess. Apparently because of this Shell oil contains less foreign objects compared to others.

Not sure if they still do, but they used to sell thire containers to Valoline.

When I had a Cosworth, Shell and Motul were the only oils to make the top end less rattly on a cold start up. I used to change the oil ever 3k on that, I'm lazy now and go to around 5/6K..

[gullavelt]

Originally Posted by skyship007

It's only new filters that are not efficient. For example typical figures for a new filter might show that it stops 97% of 20 micron particles, but stops 99% after 10K km. So the new filter is passing 3 times more debris than the dirty one. If you read the advertising for oil filters they only quote the dirty filter efficiency figure for obvious reasons.
There is no reduction of oil flow rate with a dirty filter (Although some top end engine parts or the turbo could suffer from reduced flow due to long term varnish deposits), it only reduces if the oil pump intake screen blocks up with sludge. If an oil filter blocks it contains a pressure relief valve, so even then the oil flow will continue.

All engine oil use the same type of detergent additives (Mostly Calcium based compounds), although the amount does vary. The negative effects of changing the oil too often is slightly worse with oils that contain a lot of detergents, like Mobil 1. Those detergents do get used up as the oil ages.

I use Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 or Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech 5w40. They both produce the same good oil analysis figures. I'm only fussy about which oil I use if an engine has a turbo, as it's very important that the feed line does not suffer from varnish deposits and good additives do make more of a difference to turbo bearing life than the other engine bearings.

If I had to use an oil that has restricted levels of Zinc based anti wear additives for a DPF equipped diesel (Acea C or E) I would definitely use half a can of Liqui Moly Ceratec additive,as it was designed for such use. It contains both Moly (Mo) and a special form of Boron Nitride that form an extra protective ant-wear layer.

Cheers very interesting info there

[Mr steptoe]

Originally Posted by gullavelt

Cheers very interesting info there

But bare in mind how many engines you know or have heard of failing or wearing out due to bad oil or filters over the last 30 years..

Go on, how many ? How many cars in use everyday ? How many are parked up at the side of the road with worn out engines..

Don't get paranoid about engine oil just stick to the manufactures advice rather than internet experts . .