Right Hand Engine Mounting B200F

[Stephen Edwin]

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Ahem. In this post I don't know if I prefer the following to be right or wrong ....

A workshop manager of another garage has said to me how they typically apply FORCE under an engine to change engine mounts. He said I would be surprised how much force a sump and engine will take.

So perhaps, what has changed is, how much force I had the courage or stupidity to apply when I did the job on my 245 ????

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[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by CosmicBike

After driving for nearly a year with both mounts broken, I was suprised at how much vibration I have since fitting a pair of new, 'normal' rubber mounts. Poly would be worse, and I don't think my 27 year old, 180,000 mile old B200F is going to be pushing out enough horses or torques to worry the standard mounts!!

Thanks Cosmic. And ouch re two broken munts. One broken mount was a do not drive MOT result for me !!!!

I understand some owners are pleased with poly mounts. I would want to drive a car with polies fitted before going that route. There must be a Pllyfilla joke here somewhere ....




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[classicswede]

Originally Posted by Stephen Edwin

Well when I did the job on the 245 someone must have done all that stuff while my back was turned. How kind of them.

Something has changed.



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There is something about age an memory so they say

The 140 and amazon do have a simple mount where you just undo a single nut each side.

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by classicswede

There is something about age an memory so they say

The 140 and amazon do have a simple mount where you just undo a single nut each side.

Thank you.

I believe I have addressed that point ...

I did replace the right hand engine mount. on my 245. I did not remove any mounting bracket(s)

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[Clifford Pope]

I have just been out to look at the mounts on my 1991 240, and I see now where the confusion comes from.

The RH upper bracket has a cut-away on the upper side opposite the mount, so it is perfectly possible to get a suitable socket on an extension in to remove the nut holding the mount. The lower one is exposed and although access is blocked to a socket an ordinary spanner would get in.

When I first replaced mounts, I think on a 1981 car, I successfully removed and replaced each mount in turn without moving the brackets. It had never occured to me from experience with other cars to do it any other way.
The LH upper bracket appears impossible from above because the access hole is far too small, if you are just looking at a bracket loose on the bench. But inspection on the car shows that unlike the RH side it does not bolt to the flat side of the block but to raised castings in the block which create a sufficient gap at the back for a similar access by socket.

I got the idea of removing all four brackets entirely when I had to replace a pair of mounts on another car that had become very deformed, the RH one made soggy by oil leakage from the oil filter, and the engine had dropped and shifted position obscuring access to the RH mounting nut.

This engine was very difficult to manouvre and the LH mount parted when I tried to use it as a pivot to tilt the engine to gain clearance to undo the RH one.

I now think that lifting the engine and removing all brackets is the easier and safer method as standard, although as explained it may well be possible to remove simply the rubber mounts if at least the LH original is in reasonable condition.

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by Clifford Pope

I have just been out to look at the mounts on my 1991 240, and I see now where the confusion comes from.

The RH upper bracket has a cut-away on the upper side opposite the mount, so it is perfectly possible to get a suitable socket on an extension in to remove the nut holding the mount. The lower one is exposed and although access is blocked to a socket an ordinary spanner would get in.

When I first replaced mounts, I think on a 1981 car, I successfully removed and replaced each mount in turn without moving the brackets. It had never occured to me from experience with other cars to do it any other way.
The LH upper bracket appears impossible from above because the access hole is far too small, if you are just looking at a bracket loose on the bench. But inspection on the car shows that unlike the RH side it does not bolt to the flat side of the block but to raised castings in the block which create a sufficient gap at the back for a similar access by socket.

I got the idea of removing all four brackets entirely when I had to replace a pair of mounts on another car that had become very deformed, the RH one made soggy by oil leakage from the oil filter, and the engine had dropped and shifted position obscuring access to the RH mounting nut.

This engine was very difficult to manouvre and the LH mount parted when I tried to use it as a pivot to tilt the engine to gain clearance to undo the RH one.

I now think that lifting the engine and removing all brackets is the easier and safer method as standard, although as explained it may well be possible to remove simply the rubber mounts if at least the LH original is in reasonable condition.

Thank you Clifford. Our memories are coexistent.

I can't remember if I used a socket or a spanner. I should prefer an easier question please?

Currently. I used a socket on one nut and a spanner on the other nut.

I can't check my car at the moment, it is in a garage.

The issue remains as several members have reported. Approximately. It would be hard to get the mounting replaced without removing at least one bracket.






Chicken tonight. In about 30 minutes.



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[Bob 1967]

I had a similar problem ,(but a B21A) both mounts had gone as had the gearbox mount.
Everything was out of alignment ,at least 3" and required a good kicking!
Both brackets had to be removed.
The right side was easy enough, the bolts under the crossmember and the three on the block.
The left side required a certain amount of gymnastics ,not easy in your 50s.
The oil filter can be removed to give better access without draining the oil, just something to catch drips (an old mop bucket worked for me as I was entering unknown territory ).
A 12mm ratchet spanner (what do you call a small ratchet : A mouse ****!)Sorry) is ideal or a 1/8 " drive with a knuckle joint (hard to come by)and a
12mm socket to remove the three bolts on the block.

If the gearbox mount or crossmember are slackened off it allows the engine to move freely while supported on the jack.
Bob

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by Bob 1967

I had a similar problem ,(but a B21A) both mounts had gone as had the gearbox mount.
Everything was out of alignment ,at least 3" and required a good kicking!
Both brackets had to be removed.
The right side was easy enough, the bolts under the crossmember and the three on the block.
The left side required a certain amount of gymnastics ,not easy in your 50s.
The oil filter can be removed to give better access without draining the oil, just something to catch drips (an old mop bucket worked for me as I was entering unknown territory ).
A 12mm ratchet spanner (what do you call a small ratchet : A mouse ****!)Sorry) is ideal or a 1/8 " drive with a knuckle joint (hard to come by)and a
12mm socket to remove the three bolts on the block.

If the gearbox mount or crossmember are slackened off it allows the engine to move freely while supported on the jack.
Bob

Thank you Bob.

I find it tricky enough to hold a washer and nut and fit them without dropping them. As for gymnastics? Not for me thank you and I'm still young. Honest I am .....

I had wondered if a ratchet spanner would help with the situation that Othen described. I have built up a small collection of flex head ratchet spanners. Very useful.

A Mouse you say. Well. What do cats call mice on roller skates : Meals on Wheels

There seems to be a consensus to remove the crossmember and three bolts from the block.

If a situation means removing the oil filter for a time. I wonder if a blanking plug could be made from an old filter. But an attempt to fettle a used filter risks a spillage of old oil. Or perhaps a blanking plug to fit that male thread protruding from the block is a standard part from a plumbing merchant or some such place.

I reckon you did very well to balance the engine by the way!

Well now. I can't go back to the mid 1980s and look at my old 245. It served me very well. The metal worm did for it.

I can only surmise that I did have the courage or stupidity to apply a fair bit of trolley jack force lifting the 245 engine. As said earlier, a garage workshop manager says they use a lot of force for that job in general ... not commenting to me about the 240 in particular.

I must go back to bed. Perchance to sleep.


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[Clifford Pope]

The trouble with simply jacking under the sump, apart from the possible risk to damaging the sump, is that the engine is mounted at a slant and the sump is not underneath the centre of gravity. It works if one of the mounts, preferably and usually the LH one, is sound enough to resist any sliding force, so the jack can hold the engine from slipping sideways, pivotted on the LH mount while you replace the RH one.

Hence the beam method - the engine hangs on the beam, at points that can be adjusted by experiment until the engine hangs straight, and then the jack is removed and there is clearance under the engine for getting at the mounts and brackets.

You could of course use an engine crane, or take the bonnet off and use a hoist from the garage roof, but the beam method just needs a bit of wood, some blankets, and stout rope or chains.

Which is best depends on the state of the mounts. If they were in perfect condition you could do one at a time and the job is easy. If all 3 mounts are completely broken then there is a problem as soon as you try to jack the engine.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Clifford Pope

The trouble with simply jacking under the sump, apart from the possible risk to damaging the sump, is that the engine is mounted at a slant and the sump is not underneath the centre of gravity. It works if one of the mounts, preferably and usually the LH one, is sound enough to resist any sliding force, so the jack can hold the engine from slipping sideways, pivotted on the LH mount while you replace the RH one.

Hence the beam method - the engine hangs on the beam, at points that can be adjusted by experiment until the engine hangs straight, and then the jack is removed and there is clearance under the engine for getting at the mounts and brackets.

You could of course use an engine crane, or take the bonnet off and use a hoist from the garage roof, but the beam method just needs a bit of wood, some blankets, and stout rope or chains.

Which is best depends on the state of the mounts. If they were in perfect condition you could do one at a time and the job is easy. If all 3 mounts are completely broken then there is a problem as soon as you try to jack the engine.

Hence this Clifford:



... it is useful to rig up a brace from above even if two of the mounts are sound and one is just changing the third. As you may recall from my piece on this when I changed the RB's mounts, the sump did slip off my motorbike lift whilst changing the offside, but could only drop a few millimetres. I'd advocate this as sensible - a jack under the sump is also useful to manoeuvre the lump around.

To answer a few more from the above:

a. There is no need to drain the oil in order to remove the filter - the oil will sit in the sump of course - that is what it is for. Like Bob says: have a bucket ready to catch the odd drip from the oil in the filter itself.

b. It is possible to remove the rubber mounts without taking off the upper and lower brackets - but this means jacking the engine up by at least 3" to clear the two captive screws on the rubber mount. This method is generally considered much more difficult, and is probably impossible if the rubber mounts are broken all the way through. Although it can be done, I don't believe it is the method the OP may have used to change the mounts on a 245 many years ago.

This is a pretty easy, if fiddly procedure. The whole job (all three mounts) can be done be done by removing the upper and lower brackets (this does mean taking off oil filter and loosening the alternator) in about half a day and costs less than £20. However, all this is now overtaken by events because the OP is having a garage do the work.

Stay safe,

Alan