D5 (D5244T to 2005) Vacuum line routing on D5? Schematics or pics?

[R-P]

Hi all,

Could someone (with Vadis?) provide me with a pic or schematic of the the vacuumpump, the parts and the routing? It's a LHD incase that makes much difference. I need the one controlling the turbo and engine supports, as there seem to be two vacuum pumps

I've scoured the internet, but failed to find anything of the sort for an early 2004 D5 (163hp, Euro III that is I think).

I am trying to get as much info as possible before I jack up the car (due to family obligations and weatherconditions this takes quite some planning, so no use to go in there only to find after 5 minutes that I am stuck and don't have the necessary parts with me to perform even the simplest tests...)

Thanks!

[R-P]

So far I haven't found the second vacuum pump (but it may be a double pump, the info came from someone with an XC90 Euro III, 163hp D5). It should be pretty much under my hand at 18 seconds.

I did figure out some stuff from finally getting Vadis up and running and the advice of others.

Here's a vid showing some vacuum-lines, the 'variable nozzle turbo governor' (@ 25 seconds) and the relay controlling the engine-pads or -supports (@ 38 seconds). Since the latter is tie-rapped into place, I'm not sure if that's the correct position .

+ YouTube Video

Still not sure whether the 'solenoid valve' and the 'variable nozzle turbo governor' are the same item. I think they are, but they look differently in Vadis...




Edit: look what I've found
1=vacuum pump
2=power brake booster
3=VNT governor
4=engine pads
5=solenoid valve
6=engine speed (rpm) sensor
7=engine control module
8=brake control module



Beware the documentation is VERY confusing:

The engine pads are activated (OFF/ON) depending on engine speed. Normally the valve is active (ON) at idle speed and is then deactivated (OFF) at engine speeds above approximately 1500 rpm.
ON = Open valve (hard engine pads).
OFF = Closed valve (soft engine pads).

When the engine is idling or if the engine speed (RPM) is below approximately 1100 rpm and the vehicle speed is below a certain level, the engine control module (ECM) grounds the solenoid valve. The solenoid valve then opens the passage to the vacuum pump. This changes the atmospheric pressure in the engine pads to a vacuum, making the engine pads softer and better able to absorb vibrations at idle speed and low vehicle speeds. When the engine speed (RPM) is above approximately 1100 rpm or when the vehicle speed exceeds a certain level, the engine control module breaks the ground connection for the solenoid valve. The solenoid valve then closes the vacuum passage and opens the passage for atmospheric pressure instead. The atmospheric pressure then flows in via a hole in the solenoid valve and fills the engine pads, which become harder. This ensures better ride comfort in other driving conditions.

So which is it? Switching the solenoid ON and making it softer of switching the solenoid ON and making it harder?

[v_matt_v]

Originally Posted by R-P

Hi all,
I need the one controlling the turbo and engine supports, as there seem to be two vacuum pumps

Thanks!

There is only one vacuum pump 1 which provides vacuum to all the components: engine pads, turbo, brake servo, etc. The difference is that each of these is controlled by different sensor. You can see it here:



3=VNT governor controls turbo - wastegate to be more precise
5=solenoid valve - controls the engine pads - yes you mounted it correctly by looking at your video.

Now about the engine pads. At low RPM or low speeds there is a vacuum in the pads which means that they are soft. There is basically more flexibility for rubber pads to bend due to reduced pressure - they can collapse more easily. The solenoid valve is opened (ON) letting the vacuum pump suck out the air from the engine pads.
At higher speeds the solenoid is closed - this means that the air pressure fills the vacuum lines going to the engine pads. The pads become stiffer - the pad has to squash the air to be able to collapse (bend) - it is more difficult compared to vacuum.

Try this with syringe (1). Move the piston up half way up. There is some air in the syringe. Connect small hose with another syringe (2) to the syringe (1):
1. Solenoid on - vacuum pump sucks out the air - move the piston from syringe (2) up and hold the piston of syringe (1) - you can feel that the piston from syringe 1 wants to drop (collapse) very easily - it becomes soft.
2. Solenoid off - fill the syringe (2) with air as well and connect everything again. Push the piston in syringe (2) down and at the same time try pushing the piston from syringe (1) down as well. It is more difficult - it is much harder.

I hope that's what you've asked for.

Good luck.

[R-P]

Thanks.
Either could have been correct, but the vacuum making it softer is indeed more logical.

Just some extra info: according to Vadis, only the pre 2001 D5's have a waste gate, after that it was dropped. And my vacuumpump has two outputs if I saw it correctly. One leading directly to the governor and he pads, the other leading to what looked like the power brake booster. That connector is way more professional, whereas the output for the governor/pads is simply a hollow tube you slide the rubber vacuum-tube over.

I'll try to make a pic to make sure I'm not mixing it up with an oil-feed-line

[v_matt_v]

Originally Posted by R-P

Just some extra info: according to Vadis, only the pre 2001 D5's have a waste gate, after that it was dropped.

Yes, you're right. I was just trying to make a point. The governor controls the bypass of the fumes. If the pressure is high enough the governor opens the passage for the fumes to bypass the turbo so that the turbo pressure does not increase any more.

Originally Posted by R-P

And my vacuumpump has two outputs if I saw it correctly. One leading directly to the governor and he pads, the other leading to what looked like the power brake booster.

That's right. It's the same vacuum pump but there are two outputs:
1. Low volume, high output for turbo,
2. High volume, low output for the servo

The hose diameters indicate that.

[R-P]

Originally Posted by v_matt_v

Yes, you're right. I was just trying to make a point. The governor controls the bypass of the fumes. If the pressure is high enough the governor opens the passage for the fumes to bypass the turbo so that the turbo pressure does not increase any more.

As the pic on the turbo shows, there seem to be two control arms. I'm struggling with different terms used, sometimes it's a governor, sometimes it's a solenoid controlling the turbo.
Are there, in my 2004 D5, actually two independent controls, one for the vanes and one for the bypass? (Also see the first two screenshots of Vadis in my second post).

Originally Posted by v_matt_v

That's right. It's the same vacuum pump but there are two outputs:
1. Low volume, high output for turbo,
2. High volume, low output for the servo

The hose diameters indicate that.

Thanks for expanding on that.
You don't see this in the above drawing, and I am following the steps GSMGuy took to solve his issues. He mentioned two vacuumpumps, one low volume, one high. Knowing me, I get confused quite easily, so I need to know exactly what to look for, or I chicken out and never get anything done

Thanks again!

[v_matt_v]

Originally Posted by R-P

As the pic on the turbo shows, there seem to be two control arms. I'm struggling with different terms used, sometimes it's a governor, sometimes it's a solenoid controlling the turbo.
Are there, in my 2004 D5, actually two independent controls, one for the vanes and one for the bypass? (Also see the first two screenshots of Vadis in my second post).

There is only one control arm and it controls the vanes (2=power brake booster, 3=VNT governor). That's the rod with the adjuster. I'm not sure if this is the right image of the turbo for d5 engine. I've been looking at the turbo in my car last week but I can't remember if it looked the same.

When you speak about the turbo either governor or solenoid is correct. Volvo prefers to use governor term and usually when someone says it, it means the sensor/controlling unit behind the mixer (25th second on your video) not component 3 (governor valve) in the turbo picture. Using governor for the solenoid is not entirely correct, I know.

When someone tells you that you've got sticking governor this might mean that the actual governor valve (part 3 in the picture) is damaged. In this case replacing the sensor (5) won't help (unless the sensor provides wrong vacuum pressure) - you need a new turbo. In this case you've got nothing to loose and you can do something like here:

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=83830
Post at the bottom of the page.

By the way in which section of Vadis have you found all these pictures?

[R-P]

Originally Posted by v_matt_v

By the way in which section of Vadis have you found all these pictures?

Took me hours to find, you expect me to find them again?????

On a more serious note: I selected the correct car and engine, and then just tried searches with "vacuum", "governor" and "pads".

(Click the "Engine" symbol, then the "design&function", then "intake and exhaust system", then the searchbutton can be used and fill out "pads", double click "diesel engine" and it will show a.o.t. the 'wrong' turbo shown above with the wastegate (?) still shown besides the actuator of the vanes.)

I tried finding the vacuumschematics again, but have so far failed... Then again, I did find the vacuum pump in a section about removing the engine

[v_matt_v]

Great, thanks.

[R-P]

The vacuumcircuit: select option "0" which is the (i) button for information (?). Then Design and Function in the left window, and miscellaneous in the right. Search for Governor and double click the now highlighted "Engine Control Module' and scroll down.