Bicycle lighting

[rippedoffagain]

There are lots of good, responsible, sensible cyclists. The same is true of car drivers.

There are also lots of irresponsible, mental cyclists. Again the same is true of car drivers.

There are cyclists that try to get it right, but for whatever reason get it wrong a lot. Again, same is true of car drivers... but... Before I was allowed to take a car out into the flow of traffic without supervision, I had to convince lots of people (my driving instructors, the people at the theory test centre, then the examiner on my two practical tests (because I failed my first attempt)), that I could reasonably be expected to manage a car safely. Then every year (it probably ought to be more often but that's another debate) I have to take my vehicle to a garage and let a trained engineer inspect my car to see if it is still roadworthy. If I do something daft and don't get caught on the spot, there's a good chance I'll still have been caught because my reg plate could have been clocked and the car is traced to me.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I'm not clever enough but I do think that these sort of debates would be less about opinion if appropriate legislation existed and was applied and enforced right across the whole spectrum of road users.

[liberate]

hey remember a cyclist isn't in a tin box and very vulnerable. give us a break it could be someone you know or love.

[Chris308]

I have 2 lights on my bike. An incredibly bright Cree LED lamp which I use for off road or on unlit roads and an ordinary LED which I use on road. The Cree lamp is excellent for providing visibility but I have always thought it was too bright to use on the road, especially as it is angled for long range projection and the fact that it is fixed to the handlebars means that it is probably going to dazzle car drivers, These lights are probably as bright as car headlights and they do need to be used responsibly.

[Bill_56]

Originally Posted by Chris308

I have 2 lights on my bike. An incredibly bright Cree LED lamp which I use for off road or on unlit roads and an ordinary LED which I use on road. The Cree lamp is excellent for providing visibility but I have always thought it was too bright to use on the road, especially as it is angled for long range projection and the fact that it is fixed to the handlebars means that it is probably going to dazzle car drivers, These lights are probably as bright as car headlights and they do need to be used responsibly.

Of interest, and kind of what I was hoping to learn (as a non cylist) from this thread, how easy, and how quickly, can you switch off that big light if needs be?

I have to say I utterly sympathise with the use of these lamps by cyclists for night use, simply to see whete they are going. High powered LED torches transform life as a pedestrian at night, it would be a missed opportunity if cyclists couldn't use them too. As long as they can be quickly dipped.

[rippedoffagain]

Originally Posted by liberate

hey remember a cyclist isn't in a tin box and very vulnerable. give us a break it could be someone you know or love.

Exactly. That's what, for me at least, makes it all the more frustrating when you try to have a constructive discussion about road safety involves cyclists and it turns into an us and them riot.

I actually think that discussions among ordinary folk on public forums has the potential to make more change than a group of some committee folks sitting around a table drinking coffee and looking at maps and statistics, because on forums such as this you are getting real feedback from real people. Yet rather than being a constructive discussion, it so often turns into a "its your fault not mine" type argument.

[griston64]

Its not an us against them. Most cyclists also drive cars as I do.

It annoys me when people who don't cycle on the road ( Bill56 ) start criticising cyclists and what lights they use.

As the enlightened and obviously non Daily Mail reader Liberate says we are not in a cosy well protected tin box but are very vulnerable !

[griston64]

Originally Posted by DaveNP

Having experienced a couple of cyclists with these powerful led lights recently I was interested to see this thread come up, on one journey home from work (around 6am) I too was dazzled by a cyclist with an led headlight and saw another with what looked to be a similar light which didn't cause dazzle.
Separately I have had to replace the bulb in the floodlight in my back yard, being a bit miffed with the short life of the halogen bulb I started researching alternatives and found some led replacements which were rated at 5watt with an output of 500 lumens, which is roughly equivalent to a 40w tungsten filament bulb. So RobbieH's 4w led gives him a similar lumen output to a car headlight, if it was poorly focussed or aligned it will be an equal problem to a poorly aligned car headlight, possibly more so if it is flashing, so yes Griston64 your 'bl**dy bike' can very easily become a hazard, maybe you cant cause massive direct damage but if your lights cause a driver to be dazzled the potential for an accident is greatly increased.
Unfortunately any discussion regarding cars and bicycles or drivers and cyclists rapidly degenerates into them and us so I expect a lot of cyclists will start baying for my blood, but the problem would seem to be cyclists with badly adjusted lights, these will fall into two groups- those who havn't a clue what effect their lights are having, which seems a bit odd as one might expect they would want to make the best use of their expensive lights by focussing them where they would be of use eg on the road in front of the bike, - and those who are aware of where their lights are shining and choose to have them aimed in such a way as to shine in a drivers eyes, whilst cyclists do have a tough time on the road the f*** you type attitude that this type of rider embodies is never going to earn respect from other road users. As a motorised road user I do want to be able to see cyclists (as a minimum I don't need the aggravation of being involved in an accident) but that can be achieved by much better means than shining several hundred lumens straight in my eyes.
To me Griston your tone seems to imply that your actions as a cyclist can never be questioned for their effect on other road users, but your bicycle DOES NOT exempt you from being considerate to other road users. The number of idiots in cars also does not exempt you from reasonable behaviour either, if quoting the bad behaviour of one car driver means cyclists can be inconsiderate to all other road users then one bad cyclists justifies open season on all cyclists, funnily enough I don't suppose you'll be in favour of the latter part of that concept.

I'm in favour of everyone being considerate, sadly that is not the case and cyclists are seen as a nuisance on the roads in the UK.

This is not the case in most other European countries.

You have already judged me and also implied by my tone of post that I am a f**k you lycra clad lout as the Daily Heil would put it. I can assure you that isn't the case but I'm never going to convince you otherwise.

[stephend]

Originally Posted by Bill_56

The main arguments if favour of the excessively bright lights seems that they make things safer for the cyclist, and that justifies their use, regardless of the danger to other road users caused by dazzle.

It also seems to be suggested that bicycle lamps that dazzle should be forgiven because a lot of cars have bad lights too, or are driven badly. These things are undeniable, but do two (or three) wrongs make a right?

I think you're twisting what has been said a bit, Bill. The argument was that brighter lights make things safer for cyclists, and that's no different to the argument in favour of fitting brighter headlamps to cars. You're the one inserting the word 'excessive' here. I don't think anyone has said it's ok for anyone to dazzle anyone.

Nor did anyone say that it's ok for bikes to have badly adjusted lights because cars sometimes do. All that was being said is one should bear in mind that bikes are not the only offenders when criticism is being dished out.

Of course, the brighter car lights get, the brighter bike lights will need to get to remain visible. It's rather like when halogen bulbs started getting popular in the mid-80s: older cars with non-halogen bulbs could be difficult to pick out in a queue of traffic, and I remember upgrading the bulbs on my mum's car as a consequence.

And how many threads have there been on here about fitting Osram Nightbreakers to our Volvos in the hope of improving the candles fitted by Volvo?!

[Chris308]

Originally Posted by Bill_56

Of interest, and kind of what I was hoping to learn (as a non cylist) from this thread, how easy, and how quickly, can you switch off that big light if needs be?

I have to say I utterly sympathise with the use of these lamps by cyclists for night use, simply to see whete they are going. High powered LED torches transform life as a pedestrian at night, it would be a missed opportunity if cyclists couldn't use them too. As long as they can be quickly dipped.

It has a large button on the back so it is quite easy to switch, which then scrolls through the modes (high, low, flashing, off). You need to take into account that you need to take a hand from the handlebars to the light and your attention will be drawn from the road to the light. It would depend on the situation you were in at the time as to whether it is safe to switch it.

Personally, I haven't been flashed by car drivers so far so I think I have probably got it about right. If I was to be regularly flashed / beeped at then I would look again at where the beam was pointing as they are incredibly powerful and you definitely wouldn't want to look directly into the beam.

[Bill_56]

Originally Posted by griston64

Its not an us against them. Most cyclists also drive cars as I do.

It annoys me when people who don't cycle on the road ( Bill56 ) start criticising cyclists and what lights they use.

With respect, and let's keep it friendly...
...Can't you see how it might appear to be a slight contradiction there? You say it's not 'us against them', and yet I am not entitled to a point of view (on a matter that affects my safety) as I am not 'one of you'?