Hid kit, yes or no?

[Anadinolin]

I am toying with the idea of getting a Hid kit for my motor once it has been bought back to its former glory ( rust sorted etc).

What do people think, what are the legal aspects...read somewhere its an mot fail??

[volvorocks]

Lot about HIDs blinding people when not fitted correctly or just being plain wrong even if fitted in accordance with the instructions. My view is if the car is not so factory equipped, then don't aftermarket fit.

Regards

[triumphtoledo]

HID conversion kits are illegal to sell and fit to a car in an EU member state. While some kits may pass the MoT, the do not comply with UK and European type approval, which makes the car no longer road legal, which could result in prosecution for the driver. They can also affect insurance validity, too.

They also can damage wiring and headlight reflectors.

Basically, don't do it, especially for the safety of other road users that are likely to be dazzled by your 'safety' retrofit.

R

[monkeh]

Ignoring the tosh about illegal to fit, 440's have got glass lenses, which can correctly diffuse a HID beam without dazzle.
Going into the simple science for the people screaming ILLEGAL!
Glass lenses that have the diffuser plates moulded into the glass rely on light just being thrown in their direction, No moulding or re-direction of light happens on the reflector, Its only used to throw the light straight at the glass. Any form of beam is corrected then and there.

Plastic lenses that rely on the light being correctly aimed by the reflector, If you look at the light cluster of a plastic lens car, ie a focus, megane etc... You can see what I mean. Which is where HID gets its bad name, as the bulb is slightly taller and it throws its beam out in a different place. The plastic lens just acts like a dust cover basically causing massive beam scatter.

Put them on, Dont listen to the people saying its illegal, Ive tried and tested this theory, HIDs are installed on my dads V90, My old 940, My old escort, My v70, Glass lenses all of them... All of which pass the MOT no sweat, even with the fussy MOT testers, As long as the ballasts were hidden... They passed. A subtle 5000k or 6000k colour would certainly make a difference.


My proof to this 'Tosh'? The plastic later design of the C70 headlights provided massive beam scatter with HID, Replacing them with the original glass lenses proved the point. After replcing these with the projector lenses, I tried the HID on the full beam and this also proved the issue as the full beam lens was a reflector scattering the beam. Id show you the wall that proved my findings, with my little beam sketches... I used chalk. Sorry.

[triumphtoledo]

Sorry Monkeh but, despite your anecdotal experiences and using chalk sketches, I have been in professional lighting engineers' labs and have witnessed why these kits are a safety hindrance, rather than a benefit.

While we could argue all day, the facts are that HID conversion kits remain illegal to supply and fit into a halogen housing. Full stop. To advise the original poster otherwise might incite him/her to commit an offence and cause discomfort to other road users.

The facts are:

HID bulbs are illegal to supply and fit (Source: Department of Transport, UK & EC Construction & Use)

The reflectors and glass lenses are designed to direct light from a filament bulb, not a gas discharge HID, which produces light in different parts of the bulb, not just because the bulb is longer. Halogen bulbs contain shields, for example.

Therefore, the headlight optics cannot work correctly and you will get large amount of lights in some areas and inadequate lighting in others, creating a safety risk. (Source: Philips Lighting Senior Engineer, Institute of Advanced Motorists and RoSPA). Also, the glass lens on older cars cannot correct any light that is thrown at it, only light that is directed in a certain way, as designed.

Just because your cars' lights pass the MoT, this does not make it roadworthy. Our MoT does not check for compliance. Your car needs to go through a Normal IVA Test to check for UK compliance and a vehicle fitted with an HID Conversion kit WILL fail the Normal IVA test, making it unroadworthy and no longer able to be used on public roads (Source: DVSA). The driver is also committing an offence by knowingly making the vehicle unroadworthy and using it on the highway (Source: Road Traffic Act, 1988)

Many insurance companies will not endorse the fitting of illegal parts and are unlikely to maintain cover, especially if the part is contributory to an accident. For example, dazzle contributed to 1% of road deaths in 2013 (Source: multiple insurance companies, DfT accident statistics). Several insurance companies I have spoken to refuse to offer quotations, if an HID conversion kit is fitted.

I hope this justifies the "tosh" about why HID conversion kits are illegal. I'd be interested to hear of any proper counter rationale, with sources (not 'my mate/mechanic down the pub says...') if any is available.

R

[monkeh]

If I could have also taken a picture of the beam alignment jig in the testing station, then I'm sure that would have been enough to show you the results. No, I don't have the 'mate down the pub' situation, I have a good working friendship with a garage industry. Parting with a few beers in a pub, I have use of a garage to check things FOC.
Hid cuts off on glass lenses perfectly. If you were interested, grab a kit and install it when your on the ramps. With the exception of the flick up on the left of the beam, there is maybe millimetres of spurious emissions... As for the 1%? I would call it the people who can't install their bulbs the right way up, the people who drive their cars with bonk eyed headlights are that percentage...
And as for insurance? My broker has those mods declared on the escort and the v90 with no issues whatsoever.
If they're that illegal to fit don't you think old bill would be doing its upmost to remove every single car that has them? Or eBay trying to remove these illegal kits from the net?
I'll keep fitting HID... I don't give a hoot what anyone says. Tastefully fitted with a near stock colour.

[bimmer49]

I thought the EU implementation on HID was that the vehicle had to have a headlamp wash mechanism and some kind of self leveling device/suspension?

[DSK]

Whilst there are many cheap HID kits, not even CE or E marked, this is what many people opt for due to low costs.

However, with the more expensive kits such as HIDS Direct and HIDS4U, their kits are CE/E marked and you can also choose the bulb type for old reflector style head lights.

I run both the reflector bulb type in the car with standard headlamps and the projector bulb type for the cars fitted with the projector lens kits.

I have driven other cars with mine following me on the motorways and none of them have dazzled or seemed questionable.

That's from my experience. Also if you are going to buy them, do not buy the cheap £24/40 rubbish on ebay.

[triumphtoledo]

Monkeh:
The alignment rigs at MoT bays are not sophisticated pieces of equipment and cannot give accurate figures, regarding scatter and other parts that might not be illuminated adequately. You need a lab.

Yet, if you, as you say, "don't give a hoot about what anyone says", then there is no point me, or the authorities, trying to rationalise with you. I just hope you do not blind me on the road...

Bimmer49:
You are right about the headlight washers / levelling but, as far as I am aware, these tend to be required on light output over a certain amount. This is why Vauxhall has introduced the new Corsa with optional HIDs but with no headlamp washers, because they fall under the threshold.

DSK:
All HID conversion kits are not legal, for the reasons explained already, and your car is not roadworthy with them fitted.

The so-called expensive kits from the suppliers you mention are not type approved - and I have seen many of them. The ballast and bulb might wear legit type approval markings as separate units but the two units working together cannot be type approved.

This is because the HID burner cannot be fitted with a halogen bulb base.

In short, HID conversion kits are not legal to sell or fit, regardless of anecdotal experience of them being OK.

Hope this helps.

R

[Tannaton]

Ooooer bit of debate going on here.

I looked into this some years ago in detail and have tried to keep up with legislation since. Below is my considered opinion, not from the Gospel, but I am confident it's correct.

Basically....

When car lamps are manufactured, it has been a legal requirement since 1/8/1980 for fittings to to meet type approval (i.e. "E" marked). If you fit non E-marked bulb or bulb of different type, then the lamp on longer meets the E type approval - and this includes fitting a HID bulb into a headlight designed for a halogen lamp. So the point that HID kits are not legal to fit is correct in principle.

HOWEVER....

Local Plod enforces the Road Traffic Act and other motoring legislation passed by parliament - which they struggle to keep up with. They generally do not enforce EU type approval rules and regulations which is well beyond them as it's so complicated - no offence intended. Many parts on a car have to meet EU type approval and you invalidate it when you fit modified or parts from a different manufacturer - for example sports exhausts, alloy wheels, even seatbelts, performance brake pads AND LED BULBS in your parking lamps. I am not aware of anyone being prosecuted under EU type approval legislation as a result of fitting HID lamps and I think it is factual to say that the chances of you being so are zero.

There is not a definitive legal definition of what constitutes and "unroadworthy" vehicle so most Police etc. would fall back to the standards required for an MOT - not EU type approval - unless specific legislation exists (e.g. number plates). Hence in practice if you have sensible HID kit fitted and there is no issue with beam pattern or dazzle, I think the chances of you being prosecuted are slim. Fitting a HID kit does not necessarily make your car un-roadworthy.

With regard to the point on headlamp self levelling and washers - this is required on most new cars that have HID lamps fitted at the factory. With regard to the MOT these are now testable items with cars equipped with HID lamps but only if fitted.

With regard to the point that the 400 Volvo's have glass headlamps and can cope with HID - this has no relevance. 99% of HID headlamps fitted as standard to cars are "projector" type headlamps, whereas most halogen headlamps (especially on older cars like the 440) are reflector type. Because the light emitting area of a HID lamp is larger and a different shape to a halogen bulb it's more difficult to get them to work with reflector headlamps (although the early XC90's with reflector headlamps did have a HID option).

And another point is that most H4 (i.e. twin filament) HID kits are awful as they tend to use a single lamp and a moving sheild to switch between high and low beam, and it's these kits I think that are responsible for 90% of retrofit HIDs that dazzle. However single bulb kits like H7's tend to work much better.

HID's use less power that halogen lamps so there is no risk to your wiring but on some cars they may trigger the bulb failure warning due to the lower current requirement.

So my suggestion is if you have H4 headlamps - buy some quality, upgraded halogen bulbs and don't bother with the HID kits. If you have single filament bulbs then tread carefully and in full knowledge...

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...-headlamps.pdf