Advanced driving -upside down way

[ThomasG]

Oh, no.. Not yet
Give me few days. Keep mirror handy

[MikeGMT]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

So..

I'm looking for ways to improve my driving.

No- I don't find it lacking, I just want to improve.
As a matter of fact I had quite few good words addressed towards me, "not a driver- a bl..dy pilot" (smooth ride, transit van), "whenever he's driving, I feel safe" (from long distance shipping driver, various occasions/cars), things like that.

Yet.. There's always space for improvement



I think there is a bit of confusion in this thread, maybe due to the thread title . . . IAM, as this pre-supposes that was your intention. Perhaps why whoever contacted you originally, rightly or wrongly thought you were going down that route.

Maybe a better title would have been Advanced Driving which encompasses all the different ways of improving your driving. Bit like buying a Dyson and then tell everyone you have got a new hoover. Both do the same job, but go about it in different ways.

Now it begs the question, what is a ‘advanced driver’, but I’ll not go there.

Not sure what your aim is Thomas but I would say there are three options to choose from. Depends wether or not you want some confirmation as you go along the path to your driving goals.

1). IAM or Rospa, probably the most popular route. They are both the same really. Read the book, get on road coaching and take the test. You are measured against a set core of competencies, if you meet the standard you pass the test and get a certificate and a badge, if you want one.

2) As Dibble outlined in post #19, maybe difficult to find a serving or retired Traffic cop who could give you enough time but worth it’s weight in gold if you can. If you are not bothered about a qualification then this would be an eye opener.

3) Commercially run advanced driving course. Considerably more expensive. Courses are usually 4/8 hrs.

I’ve been fortunate enough to do (1) then (2)

All of these are based on a understanding of Roadcraft, problem with no.3 as I see it is all on road training is very intense as you will find out, and after about 2hrs your focus and concentration starts to slip, and if you have no experience of driving to the ’system’ it is a lot to take in at one session.

Hope that helps. Just enjoy whichever way you decide.

Shall we carry on.

[ThomasG]

It will be one hard decision to make.

I don't feel too fond of option 3.
If I'm to spend money, I want to know what will I get for it, in advance.
Also the pace of training nay not be that suitable.

Best looking is option 2, but even then it would be good to have some prior experience of "system"


And what I actually do:

Few hours ago I sent a request to Keswick group, asking for availability of observer around end of May.
(Yes.. I'm hell bent on trying myself on these roads)
That's quite a time ahead, but I'm not very flexible with the date. It will have to be second bank holiday if May.

In parallel to that I will be contacting group nearest to me, possibly Guildford, first trying that "free" ride, then possibly taking it further.

And in the meantime I'll be looking for "uniformed" teacher


Don't even for a minute think that I'll leave this thread closed

[ThomasG]

So.. A small update. For anyone's benefit, if there is benefit at all. I'm unable to judge what someone finds useful and what not.

Of course what I'm putting down here are only "initial" thoughts. And as such will be revised.

I set off to work today, planned route A217 out to M25, M25 from J8 to J6, back in using A22.

Straight from home I was driving "by habit", the way I always do. Right hand at 4 o'clock, left busy flipping pages of Facebook, there was this interesting article on new vibration absorbing coating to power tools handles..

Kidding!

I was driving my " normal" way.
That is- from onset, right at 4 o'clock, left hand half the time on the wheel (8 o'clock) half the time holding my vaping device. Pretty much same when I reached A217, with the only distinction that left hand was spending more and more time on the wheel. By "mad mile" (roughly between Belmont and Banstead, a mile long piece with 60mph limit), I remembered to try out newly gained knowledge.

For those unaware- it takes hard, conscious effort to change ones habits, OK? Its not easy to remember to do something differently than the way one is used to, especially as one is busy observing the road.

Anyway, 10-2 it was.
Oh my poor arms! I had no idea how heavy these are.

Away with 60mph and revert to 8-4. 40mph limit, traffic light enough to be clear, but dense enough that people do look around before pulling something off. Few "mad vans" (you know the kind) did cut in, but that's more to do with throttle control. Not even brakes when you know that such things simply will happen, as they always do, and are prepared.

Reached M25, tried different one- 9-3.
Better!
Have to notice here that the very shape of steering wheel has huge influence.
With 10-2 all I have is the rim of the wheel to hold, with 9-3 I can rest my thumbs on wheels spokes.
Another observation, so silly and obvious.. Stalks.
So-so reachable with both 10-2 and 8-4, but directly underneath my fingertips with 9-3.
A bit differently with wheel controls (audio, cruise). These are lower, much easier to operate with 8-4.

I will risk saying that this particular wheel seems to be built for 9-3 AND 8-4.
One would be used on rural and town roads, where there's a lot if indication, headlight flashing and changes high/low..
And other for motorway stretches. Not much to do, adjust cruise, change radio station/volume, sometimes indicate.
One is better suited for quick and (for lack of better word) "big" course change (going around that pram)
The other one is great for quick, but small "adjustments" that one makes on motorway, for example changing the lane.

I think I need to pop out and check it on some winding, rural, road.

Mike..

I can almost predict your words.

I promise not to bring it back for a while, (unless someone asks), I'll keep "practicing".

Another thing:

Yesterday I had a chat with my " private observer", with the one who, having licence for over 20 years, is afraid to drive, and yet tells me when to overtake, when lights change and when there's a little doggy running on the pavement..
Sometimes I feel like doing the same thing to her when she's doing the dishes.. Unfortubately- that's my job, too..

I did ask does it feel smooth when I drive, does she feel like she's shifting in (leather) seat.
And the answer was "No" "its nearly perfection/I don't know when you start braking" (etc) followed by "in England."
"In Europe you get jerky. Not braking, not turns, its acceleration. Its overtaking. You rev the engine like mad"

Oh, well.. I could say that the car is automatic so all I do is press the throttle, that when we're on the other side of channel, car is loaded up to the roof and engine has to pull it all, and struggles..

But nevertheless- food for thought it is..

[ThomasG]

Would you believe..

My current insurer doesn't offer ANY discount for passing advanced driver challenge.
No matter what level, no matter what organisation. Just "No".

Me thinks its time to start looking around.

[I Feel Old]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Would you believe..
My current insurer doesn't offer ANY discount for passing advanced driver challenge.

That's because (s)he's been reading this thread!

[37 RUBY]

I've read the thread from top to bottom and I had a question pop into my mind

So from page 1.

Originally Posted by I Feel Old

I'm looking for ways to improve my driving.

What was it that triggered this ?

[Ukwide]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Would you believe..

My current insurer doesn't offer ANY discount for passing advanced driver challenge.
No matter what level, no matter what organisation. Just "No".

Me thinks its time to start looking around.

Interestingly, when I enquired with a reputable insurance company (is there such a thing?) if they gave a discount for IAM membership, having passed car, motorcycle and LGV/PCV IAM tests, I was told no, the cost of the policy price would increase lol

[I Feel Old]

Originally Posted by 37 RUBY

So from page 1.

There may indeed be improvement required in my driving Ruby, however I'm not the OP, it's ThomasG.

From some of his posts I have concluded Thomas is not a new driver and admit to having a similar thought. Why now?

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by 37 RUBY

What was it that triggered this ?

Originally Posted by I Feel Old

Why now?

I was trying to answer this last night, but good idea it was not. Sleepy head doesn't think straight.


A simple answer would be "because I've seen someone mention IAM in " licence upgrade" thread.

But it wouldn't work if I wasn't on the lookout for such things in the first place.

So brace yourselves

There's no definite point that could be called "Thomas decided to improve".
Its an ongoing thing.

Started early, long time before I was even able to reach the steering wheel ( if someone would let me in the first place).
Cycling. As a kid.
Racing with other boys, these things. Fields, tarmac, gravel.
Looking back, it was then I started, unknowingly, paying attention to surface under wheels.
It was back then when I developed a sense that I'd call " no matter where you're going, the joy is in the way you get there, not in reaching your destination"
In other words- I begun to love moving around.
Skip some years, I was still cycling.
But now I was cycling to get to and from work.
And it wasn't somewhere in the woods, somewhere where one sees a car once in 10 minutes.
It was London. It was tight.

What quite a number of people doesn't realise is that car is a very forgiving machine. Make false move at 30mph and just the grip of tyres is good enough to get you out of it.
It isn't so with a pushbike.
At 30mph (not uncommon, many times faster than that) a bike is a ballistic object.
Its not "change of course" anymore.
Its "change of trajectory".
And one learns (I did) to plan that trajectory as far in advance as possible. Learns to be ready to change that trajectory at an instant. As a matter of fact- have few of these worked out in advance, keep on working them out as you progress, be ready to jump from one to another.
Anticipation. Looking under that bus for moving feet. Checking reflections in parked cars or shops windows. Timing traffic lights so you loose mimimum speed, so you expell minimum effort to come back to your " running" speed...
These, and few others are results of doing nearly 10 000 mikes a year in London traffic. No, I'm not kidding.
Plot cycling course from colliers wood to Paddington station. Then back. Then again from colliers to vistoria station. And back.
Daily.
6 days a week.
For over 2 years.
Tyres don't get worn out too quickly on a pusbike.
But other parts do.
I had chain snapped on me. I had bearings giving in.
hat reached me to try to control forces applied to my bike.
Reached me not to "tug" on pedals, but apply smooth force.
In the same time I had number of other road users "taking priority".
Learned to feel the brakes. I only ever used front and only front brake.
And with that- press it too strong and you're on the ground.
So you need to learn where the line is, how to operate it in such a way that you stop in the quickest possible way, but without toppling forward.

I went forward twice.
Once- I haven't noticed a speed bump, started braking coming off of it.
It took 2 weeks to heal. Car that popped out from side street just drove away, without taking notice.
I should have seen that bump. My fault. Get better, Thomas!
Another time- expensive car cutting in front of me, on a bend (coming off a roundabout).
You should've foreseen it thomas! Get better!

One accident. One time when my bike actually went under. I rolled off.
Van was turning left from main into side road. No indication, didn't check mirror. It was on pelican crossing, too. So I was between him and kerb, I didn't loose all the speed yet, so I was gaining on him.
Technically- his fault.
But mine also.
I should have been more careful.

Get better!

This was by the end of my cycling time.
By then I had too many tools and to many places to go to to keep carrying all that in a rucksack.

Car was the answer.

With all the cycling experience, L-test was a fly trough.
Didn't have to learn much theory. It was already in.
Didn't have to.learn how to observe traffic, how to plan ahead.. It was already in.
Had to get hang of gearstick, of clutch, of mirrors that were giving me at the time really hard time.

And I did.

First car.
First insurance.
"OK, so you passed licence test week ago, name is this occupation is that, can I have reg number of the car?"
"Of course, its YXX XXX"
"Good.. A Peugeot 306, silver mettalic, 5 door, 2 litre turbo diesel... Excuse me, can you say again WHEN did you pass the licence test!?!?"

Yup. My first car. The "pocket rocket".

Bends. Roundabouts. Accelerating from bends. Braking into bends. Drunk on ability to speed off without force of my own muscles. So.. easy.. So.. good!

I slipped rear tyres once, only once on this car.
Cobham, south west of London, near A3. 40mph trying to go trough 270 degrees, tight, bend.
Ahhh.. So this is where grip ends..
No accident. Just a little slip.
Just enough to wake me up. To get me back to.planning ahead, back to being careful.

You can do better, Thomas!

Shortly after I was " given" a work van. A Vx combo, 1.2 diesel.
It wasn't that flat, tarmac hogging, mouse anymore.
This thing was rolling like long distance coach.

Learned to drive in smooth curves. Learned to squeeze out all from engine. From brakes.

On occasions I had to give co-worker a lift.
Sometimes give that lift to one of my superiors.

It was my good friend, my boss at the time, who tended to wsil "oh, no, I have to get into the van with Thomas! Will I live? Will I live?" (You reading this, O? I remember!)

And eventually he told me a story.
Some silly (or not) TV show that he's seen, and it had impact on HIS driving.
Something about blindfolded, ordinary drivers being put into passenger seats and tasked with guessing the speed of car driven by unknown driver.
Culprit of programme was that people were unable to correctly guess the speed when car was driven by racing driver. It was too smooth, too balanced, to read rlthe speed "by the buttocks".

Hmmmm..... That's interesting..

That, and his wails, set me off on course to drive smoother.

I started paying more attention to body roll. More attention to how do I accelerate and brake

I was given Ford transit connect.

Yet less engine power versus vans weight. Lovely.

Cycling time comes back. Loose minimum speed, with this body roll, its as ballistic as a bike, if not more. And somewhat faster.

I started noticing that people tend to hold the door, or rest hands on trim, when I take a corner.

Not too good a sign.

Was trying to find ways to make it better.

By sheer chance, for some urgent need, I had to slow down even more (and I wasn't going fast to start with) when I was entering corner. Some pedestrian or what, I don't remember.

The van behaved.. Differently.
That body roll was smaller!

I tried it again, deliberately.

It was better!

Next time I was driving my bosses around, I tried this.
None grabbed any handles. O - didn't wail.

Good. Let's do next and next steps, let's get the skill up.

Every input, every "out of ordinary" stripped, diagnosed, "what could be done better" "what was wrong"..

(My fingers are beggining to hurt from typing now)

O sold me his V70. That happened even before I was given that transit.

With gearbox that didn't have oil change in its entire life..
Yes, I started changing oil frequently, clearing the muck. Its almost fine now.
But to operate that box I had to develop certain " feel" in my right foot.
Had to feel gear changes.

This. This is the car that taught me smooth drive.

I kept practicing, I kept thinking. I kept looking out for ways to get better.
For a change- in advance. Not when need arises. Long before that.

This car taught me to nearly "coast" towards red light.
Not to hurry.
Bike taught me not to loose cool. To plan trajectories.
Transit taught me to control brakes and body roll
Combo taught me how to exploit every bhp from engine.

And, for a while, it was fine.

I kept rethinking things.

And then begun making trips to other side of channel.

And I don't know how to put it.

I have difficulties "reading the traffic" ahead of me. People not always, but quite often, do things that I did not prepare for.
Nothing to do with driving on other side of the road.
Say, you are driving in right lane(motorway), car in front, ahead if that- a lorry. Car slows down, I would change the lane to overtake, and as I'm approaching that car- it will shoot out onto my lane to overtake lorry!

What the hell is that?

It is my job to be prepared for such.
It is me, driver, to be ready.

And not to loose cool. Not to panic and do something stupid

That example I have given above, the lorry.
It wasn't quite like that.
I altered the story to give it some more focus on decision making, not the occurence. To prevent bickering ",it was dangerous", and give emphasis to ", what decision would YOU make".

What actually happened..

There was no car behind. Well. There were few, but over a mile behind, so they don't count.

And there was no third lane.

Motorway was nearly empty. Just 2 lanes, lorry, and me

The second that lorry moved, the very instant that it uncovered the very reason of lane change (another, broken down lorry on the side) I just knew that he's not going all the way to other lane.

I had half of second lane, and another that of tarmac beyond second lane.
Decision: to brake hard, shuffle sleeping passengers, shuffle the load..
Or use that gap.

Decision made in an instant.

THAT is the feeling of job done right.

On return I was attacked by snowfall.

I've never driven in snowfall.

I can, I know how, walk on ice. I can ride bike on slippery surface. That's what I learned as a kid.

But to drive?

With mere 50mph (speed limit 87, cars wheezing by, and I'm on snow tyres), with steering input as light as feather..
I still felt my car " dancing". Few millimetres one way, few mm other way.
How do I control THAT?

Made it back.

There was that thread "licence upgrade"

Someone mentioned IAM.

I asked question about skid control course.

And had answer.

In the thread, in PMs, IAM members were telling me how to start. What books to get.

I mentioned my interest in IAM during argument with "someone who feels old", in his thread " car functionality"

More PMs. In between them- idea to open this thread.

That makes me think.. If the person who gave me this idea suffers from headaches by now.. I think it might have been self inflicted?

Got first of the books.
Started to read.

Sitting position. Mirrors.
Speed limits. Gear selection.
"advanced driver should never brake in turn"
Seatbelts. Observing traffic. Leave 2 seconds gap..

Wait! What?
"Don't brake in turn!?!?"
But that, if done right, gives more stability!

Bugger it. I'm opening that thread. Will see how it goes. I need answers.
Let's try to keep it composed- chapter by chapter (well- that didn't go well, did it?).

So- here I am.

And I think..
Theres maybe 5..6 of us talking.
And yet this thread had over 800 views.
Someone is interested in this. And doesn't say a word.

YOU!

Yes, YOU, reading this!

Why won't YOU say something?

Add something?

What is YOUR opinion on all this?