Has the world finally gone mad?

[TeamG]

Originally Posted by JohnM 855 T5R

”The chap was trying to sell the cars to me without viewing and paying for them prior to delivery/collection, even quoting that 90% of his sales were conducted that way....he further quoted.."trust is everything on BOTH parts..."

Now is that a little suspicious or what? I don't have any personal knowledge of the dealer in question but, based upon this, clearly they didn't want the cars viewed and appraised before sale (or worse, is it some kind of scam??)
Needless to say, I (or any other right minded person) would never buy a car under those terms.

Based on that, I’d be walking away. Any seller ultimately comfortable in the sale that they are making will invite you to take a closer look, as photos are unlikely to do justice to the real condition. The other way around, they are hiding something.

[Timmilne]

Originally Posted by JohnM 855 T5R

I have been in conversation with a member on here seeking advice (as is proper, I shall keep them anonymous as it was a private chat) and who contacted this dealer with a view to possible purchase of one or other of these T-5R's. This is what he related to me...

"started negotiations on buying both cars and actually struck a tentative deal for both of them based on viewing them and being in showroom/immaculate condition as advertised. I can only say that once I started to question the said advertised condition and that I would be coming along to view the cars with a fellow Volvo 850 enthusiast (he's a mechanic on this forum who knows/works on 850/V70s), that things started to go cold on the deal. Needless to say he replied back saying that he had now decided not to sell but keep them as they will be worth £20k and £27k in the Spring!
The chap was trying to sell the cars to me without viewing and paying for them prior to delivery/collection, even quoting that 90% of his sales were conducted that way....he further quoted.."trust is everything on BOTH parts..."

Now is that a little suspicious or what? I don't have any personal knowledge of the dealer in question but, based upon this, clearly they didn't want the cars viewed and appraised before sale (or worse, is it some kind of scam??)
Needless to say, I (or any other right minded person) would never buy a car under those terms.

Regards
John

Out of my own laziness / long evenings on the internet, I got into a brief exchange with this dealer following his request to buy a UK Gul Estate — I'm half-heartedly thinking of selling mine

I was brutally honest about what it needs doing (it's currently at D&A Autos having the work done), but not dissimilar to the cars he's offering (though Auto)— two owner, 130K miles, comprehensive history etc. — and he said he thought it would be worth £10K as is and maybe £13K if all done. This is obviously what he'd pay as a dealer and so I can guess a private sale would be somewhere above that. So, if these cars aren't up to scratch, then that seems like quite an optimistic mark-up

[Bigfella666]

Absolutely with you G - walk away, even before reading the previous post got the feeling the seller was full of crap

Little mention of maintenance records etc but I am happy to take your money up front less happy for you to come and inspect - all of concern

If yoo are spending this sort of money on a Gul yoo do not want to be taking any chances - let somebody else take the risk

[JohnM 855 T5R]

Originally Posted by Timmilne

Out of my own laziness / long evenings on the internet, I got into a brief exchange with this dealer following his request to buy a UK Gul Estate — I'm half-heartedly thinking of selling mine

I was brutally honest about what it needs doing (it's currently at D&A Autos having the work done), but not dissimilar to the cars he's offering (though Auto)— two owner, 130K miles, comprehensive history etc. — and he said he thought it would be worth £10K as is and maybe £13K if all done. This is obviously what he'd pay as a dealer and so I can guess a private sale would be somewhere above that. So, if these cars aren't up to scratch, then that seems like quite an optimistic mark-up

Hi Tim,

Glad you are getting some work done - I see you have gone to D&A. I hope your experience with them will be as positive as mine have over many, many years.
I seem to have stirred things up with my post in this thread. I agree with all the sentiments voiced by everybody regarding both the dealers attitude and the questions it raises about these cars. If, as it seems, he is going around trying to buy them up to make a "killing" on gul 855's then I'd say he's doomed to failure.
There is a very real price ceiling on these at the moment - yes, a genuinely minter gul manual will probably make £20k (or possibly more with less than 80K miles) but I'd expect all the history and provenance to be bulletproof. How many like that are ACTUALLY around?? Consider this....
Given that there were only 39 manual gul 855's brought into the UK in the first place and given how many T-5R' manual estates in total are still taxed or SORN'ed, my guess is that out of these, less than 20 gul 855 manuals still exist.
Based on that true, mint, £20K plus cars might number just 4 or 5.... and if I was selling one like that, I'd want everyone to see it before they bought!!!

Regards
John


I think that this dealer

[cyclogenesis]

Only about 16 left on the road according to https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/volvo_850_t5-r
even less that are yellow

[Timmilne]

Originally Posted by cyclogenesis

Only about 16 left on the road according to https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/volvo_850_t5-r
even less that are yellow

That doesn't feel right — they're are two in my street!

[JohnM 855 T5R]

Originally Posted by cyclogenesis

Only about 16 left on the road according to https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/volvo_850_t5-r
even less that are yellow

Hi, you have only looked at the figures for the T-5R saloon manual.

All T-5R's are as follows (it's not possible to determine the colours)

Saloon Manual 16 Taxed + 20 SORN
Saloon Auto 10 Taxed + 7 SORN
Estate Manual 38 Taxed + 53 SORN
Estate Auto 40 Taxed + 37 SORN

That makes 221 T-5R's of all types in existence out of a total of 440 originally brought into the UK. Some of that 221 will be imports from Japan but even so, a remarkable amount have survived considering its 25 to 26 years on! Just shows, people have always thought them worth preserving.
If you look at just estates, 168 are in existence out of an original 322 so the percentages are similar to the saloons. Gul Estates accounted for just 79 out of the original 322 estates. I suspect that Guls have faired better in terms of preservation, so maybe 45 to 50 Gul estates in total (manual and auto) are still kicking around either taxed or SORN'ed.

For Tim to have 2 in his street is remarkable.

Regards
John

[Timmilne]

Originally Posted by JohnM 855 T5R

Hi, you have only looked at the figures for the T-5R saloon manual.

All T-5R's are as follows (it's not possible to determine the colours)

Saloon Manual 16 Taxed + 20 SORN
Saloon Auto 10 Taxed + 7 SORN
Estate Manual 38 Taxed + 53 SORN
Estate Auto 40 Taxed + 37 SORN

That makes 221 T-5R's of all types in existence out of a total of 440 originally brought into the UK. Some of that 221 will be imports from Japan but even so, a remarkable amount have survived considering its 25 to 26 years on! Just shows, people have always thought them worth preserving.
If you look at just estates, 168 are in existence out of an original 322 so the percentages are similar to the saloons. Gul Estates accounted for just 79 out of the original 322 estates. I suspect that Guls have faired better in terms of preservation, so maybe 45 to 50 Gul estates in total (manual and auto) are still kicking around either taxed or SORN'ed.

For Tim to have 2 in his street is remarkable.

Regards
John

That seems more realistic, though I know my own very local survey suffers from small sample size. And one of them is mine, of course.

And, John, I meant to thank you for the recommendation of D&A — they seem great and none of the huffing-and-puffing about it being an "old car" I got from the previous bunch

[Nick45]

The prices may seem high to those members who have lived with and enjoyed high powered 'classsic' Volvos for some time but prices are going up all the time and, as has been said, there are plenty of people who will pay a premium for the right car because they have the money to spend.

Also if you look at what else £15 to £20k buys from amongst the notable cars of that era, or earlier, the answer is not that much. If you want a high powered estate, even less. Look at what mint M5 or Alpina 5 series tourers are going for - double and more.

These might not be the mint cars they purport to be - who knows? - but if they are, I could see them making near to the advertised price.

[XC90Mk1]

Originally Posted by Nick45

The prices may seem high to those members who have lived with and enjoyed high powered 'classsic' Volvos for some time but prices are going up all the time and, as has been said, there are plenty of people who will pay a premium for the right car because they have the money to spend.

Also if you look at what else £15 to £20k buys from amongst the notable cars of that era, or earlier, the answer is not that much. If you want a high powered estate, even less. Look at what mint M5 or Alpina 5 series tourers are going for - double and more.

These might not be the mint cars they purport to be - who knows? - but if they are, I could see them making near to the advertised price.

As someone who tentatively looks for 740 and 960s I can tell you there are lots of high priced vehicles like this out there as they are listed and stay listed in perpetuity! Those vehicles will not sell for anything like that.

I should expect them to be listed for 6 weeks, be removed then be about in 6 months.

How some of these traders have the cash follow to acquire Volvos like this and hold for months amazes me.

One, advertising on car and classics HSBA fleet of 740, 960 and such like all in amazing low milage and owners but month in month out his stock never sells lol!