My newly acquired Gul Yellow 855 T5R

[JohnM 855 T5R]

Originally Posted by Timmilne

Ah, that's encouraging, thank you.

Yes, compared to 370K, mine is barely run-in!

I'm not blessed with the skills, nor the garage accommodation, to carry out all the work myself, so I hope if I do keep it, I don't end up replacing all of that lot on it. If I do, I think I'd need it to be worth £30K afterwards!

Ah, having the skills and a garage does help - though I'll confess I'm getting old enough and creaky enough to leave the heavier jobs to my stepson whilst I make tea for him and stand around making encouraging noises. He's very good though.

[JackJones]

Originally Posted by JohnM 855 T5R

I just pulled up a load of archived sales on my PC and that seems about right as in the past year, for showroom condition cars, I've seen Gul Yellow manuals go for £17,000 to £20,000 and autos for £14,000 to £17,500.

Do you know if they were UK or Japanese imports that fetched those prices?

[JohnM 855 T5R]

Originally Posted by JackJones

Do you know if they were UK or Japanese imports that fetched those prices?

They were all stated to be UK market supplier - i.e. non import. There have been several Japanese import cars up for sale in the past 18 months. If my memory serves me well they were going at around £8500 - £9000 for Autos and I saw one manual at £11,000. That seems to be the usual trend - about 40% or so cheaper
In my long hunt (2 years) for a Gul 855 I looked at several cars including an import auto and the manual mentioned above. What I'm going to say now is a bit of a generalisation so please folks don't shoot me down as there will always be exceptions.
Personally I'd steer well clear of Japanese imported T5R's unless they come with a bulletproof provenance and service history. There are a lot of "dodgy" dealer Jap importers (I'm sure there must be good ones).
Firstly, one car I viewed had UK clocks fitted which is a golden opportunity for a bit of misrepresentation. The speedo was obviously secondhand as it was showing 110K miles - the dealer claimed it had actually done only 88K miles. I read the ECU and it had actually done 205K miles. Need I say more!! Missing service records/ bills etc. are always a worry and unlike here, you can't check the MOT history. So buyer beware.
Secondly, the specifications of a lot of things are different - not just the obvious stuff like KmH speedos, SatNavs in Japanese (a lot were fitted in Japan) etc. There is much that's hidden. For example, I believe Volvo, in common with other Manufacturers (but I can't confirm), underbody sealing / corrosion protection is different and of a lesser standard as the Japanese don't salt their roads like we do. This is obviously a good cost saving measure for the manufacturer - bad news in the UK for an import
Thirdly, your insurance is likely to be higher - some insurers won't even touch imports. I only pay £180 / year for mine.
Fourth, serious classic car collectors don't tend to want imports
Finally, you have to be absolutely certain that all the paperwork, documentation, certification and approval stuff etc. is in order - a seller saying yeah, yeah, it's all been taken care of because it's registered isn't enough - check check check.

There you go - hope thats been helpful.

John

[JackJones]

Thanks for that! I have to say I haven’t seen the same 40% difference in value between UK and imports though. I’ve heard some buyers say they’d pay more for an import as there’s normally less ‘maintenance’ work to do. Unless of course it’s a well maintained example. The top prices (£17k-£20k) for UK cars tend to be low mileage showroom examples (there aren’t many of those) and I’m sure the imports you mention at £8500 - £11000 were average condition at best. This year I’ve seen an imported gul estate auto sell within a week for in excess of £14k, yet at the same time a UK equivalent car struggled to achieve £8k - the difference being condition and mileage. And likewise I’ve seen relatively inexpensive imports sit for over a year, but again they’re not the best examples. A black manual t-5r estate sold in Japan this summer for £10000 plus import fees to the UK - it wasn’t top grade quality or a particularly low mileage but compare that to the two UK black t-5r estate that are struggling to sell at the minute for £5k+. I think it is the car itself (condition/mileage/doors/transmission) that is the key factor in how much someone will pay, rather than the country sold to. And of course availability - sellers can sometimes ask for ridiculous high prices (and get them) due to the limited supply and lack of competition.

As far as I know all 850’s were undersealed to the same spec. The mileage is actually verified from the instrument cluster itself….so if you change the ECU the LED unit will still output the same mileage linked to the installed cluster. Insurance shouldn’t be much of an issue these days as they can be insured under a classic car policy. Jay Kay of Jamiroquai who is a big car collector added an imported manual 850R to his collection, which he sold last year for £15k+. Like for like I’d definitely pick the UK car, but unless they have evidence of excellent maintenance, and not just oil changes, I’d say they are more of a risk due to the harsher UK climate and higher mileages in general.

[JohnM 855 T5R]

Originally Posted by JackJones

Thanks for that! I have to say I haven’t seen the same 40% difference in value between UK and imports though. I’ve heard some buyers say they’d pay more for an import as there’s normally less ‘maintenance’ work to do. Unless of course it’s a well maintained example. The top prices (£17k-£20k) for UK cars tend to be low mileage showroom examples (there aren’t many of those) and I’m sure the imports you mention at £8500 - £11000 were average condition at best. This year I’ve seen an imported gul estate auto sell within a week for in excess of £14k, yet at the same time a UK equivalent car struggled to achieve £8k - the difference being condition and mileage. And likewise I’ve seen relatively inexpensive imports sit for over a year, but again they’re not the best examples. A black manual t-5r estate sold in Japan this summer for £10000 plus import fees to the UK - it wasn’t top grade quality or a particularly low mileage but compare that to the two UK black t-5r estate that are struggling to sell at the minute for £5k+. I think it is the car itself (condition/mileage/doors/transmission) that is the key factor in how much someone will pay, rather than the country sold to. And of course availability - sellers can sometimes ask for ridiculous high prices (and get them) due to the limited supply and lack of competition.

As far as I know all 850’s were undersealed to the same spec. The mileage is actually verified from the instrument cluster itself….so if you change the ECU the LED unit will still output the same mileage linked to the installed cluster. Insurance shouldn’t be much of an issue these days as they can be insured under a classic car policy. Jay Kay of Jamiroquai who is a big car collector added an imported manual 850R to his collection, which he sold last year for £15k+. Like for like I’d definitely pick the UK car, but unless they have evidence of excellent maintenance, and not just oil changes, I’d say they are more of a risk due to the harsher UK climate and higher mileages in general.

Hi Jack,

Just a couple of points:

The 850's have a mechanical odometer that is not at all linked to the ECU. Electronic odometers did not come in until the C/V/S70. The only way to check the real mileage is to read the ECU - straightforward enough. Of course, if the ECU has been changed then all bets are off.

I'm totally with you on the condition thing - condition is everything. Even mileage is relatively unimportant as a well cared for 5cyl engine and gearbox will easily go 400K miles with no problems (well my C70GT T5 did - see above thread). All comes down to provenance, documented history, scrupulous maintenance and the idiot behind the wheel. Also, high mileages often mean it's been well maintained otherwise terminal stuff happens - so check gearbox and engine numbers against the original build. Any variance usually means poor maintenance, thrashed car or both.

T-5R prices, I agree, can be all over the place. I'm only talking general trends which I've observed over the past 3 years in my search for a T-5R that I was happy to buy. Remember though, there is a big difference between what people ask for and what they actually get. The very high price ones rarely make the money - there is one at a dealer in Holland that's asking £23K and its been on the market forever. Things that can be said for certain - 855's make more than 854's - Gul Yellow makes a hefty price premium - there are a lot of c**p T-5R's - and imports generally make less. It all comes down to it's only worth what someone is prepared to pay.

As for spec differences, I can't confirm what is and what isn't the same. I can say, I worked for Ford in Body and Assembly in the Dagenham days. Spec differences were very common on many items, market to market, and corrosion protection is a good case in point. Japanese market cars were most definitely inferior in that department.

Regarding insurance - there are many insurers who won't insure imports on principle. Some charge a premium, and a few (usually classic car specialists) don't care. Shop around is the answer.

Kind Regards
John

[Bigfella666]

As it has cropped up in this thread teach me something please chaps

Always wondered what is the difference between an 854 and 855 - let me know so I can go to sleep tonight having learned something

What I do know is the gul estates are making ridiculous money. When I bought Saffy 18 months ago in Merseyside fella had several p80’s including a gul estate. Seller wanted no less than 10, buyer paid 9k. I had a good look around - she was far from concours. Made Saffy look a bargain !

[Timmilne]

That's encouraging (as an owner of a Gul estate who might be selling it).

I'm sure there are others on here far better informed than me, but my understanding is an 854 is the saloon and an 855 is the estate

[Bigfella666]

Thanks for your that Tim - lesson learned although I prefer T5R estate as a description then I defo know what somebody is saying !

[JohnM 855 T5R]

Originally Posted by Bigfella666

As it has cropped up in this thread teach me something please chaps

Always wondered what is the difference between an 854 and 855 - let me know so I can go to sleep tonight having learned something

What I do know is the gul estates are making ridiculous money. When I bought Saffy 18 months ago in Merseyside fella had several p80’s including a gul estate. Seller wanted no less than 10, buyer paid 9k. I had a good look around - she was far from concours. Made Saffy look a bargain !

Tim is quite right. The Volvo internal code is 85 = model range, 4 = saloon (number of doors) 5 = Estate (number of doors again). My original service book for the car has it as an 855 T-5R (the supplying dealer put that in back in 1995) but the V5 has it as a 850 because that's how it was homologated for the UK market - all very confusing lol.

John

[turboboy]

Originally Posted by JohnM 855 T5R

Tim is quite right. The Volvo internal code is 85 = model range, 4 = saloon (number of doors) 5 = Estate (number of doors again). My original service book for the car has it as an 855 T-5R (the supplying dealer put that in back in 1995) but the V5 has it as a 850 because that's how it was homologated for the UK market - all very confusing lol.

John

That is more or less how I understood it:

First Number = Model series
Second Number = No. of cylinders in engine
Third Number = No. of doors

However, for some reason Volvo did not always keep to this hence my 740 was a 5-door estate, although my 265 was the six cylinder 5-door.

From a not so good memory (so I stand to be corrected on this) the 760 had either the V6-cylinder normally aspirated (Peugeot/Renault/Volvo) engine or a 4-cylinder turbocharged one.

In addition, just to complicate things further, Volvo produced a 780 which was a 2-door coupe with a V6 engine.

So basically, it is Model number - Engine cylinders - Doors, unless someone at Volvo had a sideline in farming herbal plants and brought samples in to the office on the day a new model was introduced!