Engine: D5: Soot Filter Full - but no soot filter..

[cheshired5]

Is this thread a wind up?
It's like my car warning the adaptive cruise control or lane departure warning isn't working because I don't have those either.

[Brendan W]

Originally Posted by jim888

I'll need to take it back - they did find other codes pointing to the MAF and the EGR - all I get on the dashboard was the soot filter warning though.

Brendan, what's a DIM?

To me and you it's 'the clocks' , speedo, tacho etc. In Acronymland the title is the altogether grander Drivers Information Module.
In this case I think you could ask it be changed to the DMM , drivers misinformation module.

Many of these cars had solder joints fail on the dim and would lead to the display acting up.
pre 03 seemed to be most affected.

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that late E3 cars were fitted with the capability to generate E4 messages. If some of these cars had wiring for the next generation sensors, even though not connected to a sensor it's possible that a short in that sensor wire could mimic a sensor sending a full message.

[savabill]

That might explain the message, but would that cause the limp mode?

[Brendan W]

At a guess limp mode is a pre arranged response contingent on the presence of certain flags. Zeros and ones.

[Thingumeebob]

I had a 163bhp 55 plate euro 3 auto v70 that also gave the "soot filter full" message.

It did it twice and both times it was related to the EGR. The first time was before I cleaned the EGR, which was utterly filthy. Cleaning it resolved the problem.

Because it was so filthy, I then tried blocking it off with a bit of metal. This generated the second showing of the soot filter full message and it disappeared immediately after I removed the blanking.

There was a really good guide for cleaning the "plenum" as I recall. It would be a good place to start and is easy enough to do yourself. (Easy, but really truly despicably filthy - wear gloves)

Oh, and I've been told that EGR / MAF codes can be essentially interchangeable (as in EGR problems and throw MAF codes and vice versa) so I'd try to identify and resolve problems one at a time, then clear the codes and see what happens. It gets really expensive really quickly if you just start replacing any part referenced in some code.

The 55 plate changeover cars seem to have a few quirky issues. Hope this helps.

Edit: The EGR plenum guide is on the T5D5 forum, but you'll need to be signed in as a member for it to show:
http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/372-egr...ixer-cleaning/

[Nickthecook]

I've looked further than most into the problems with the Euro4 D5, in particular the DPF issues. You may well have a fault somewhere in the 5v reference circuit, to which the DPF Pressure Sensor is connected. There is also a problem with the type or EGR System fitted, 'Fords2003' High Pressure Loop EGR, which uses both the Turbo Vanes and Throttle Module to create the desired pressure drop between exhaust an intake. However, there should be a 2nd MAP Sensor after the Throttle, which sadly the design omits. Some faults on the 5v ref inflate the DPF pressure values and combined with the action of the EGR system, sudden spikes in the pressure reading can occur on gear changes.

There's also an issue with the charging system that can occur alongside the DPF (if it's a 5v ref problem) with the ambient air temperature sensor in the MAF, which is also on the 5v ref. This is because the engine uses Fords Smart Charge system, which uses the value from the temp sensor in calculating the batteries state of charge. If like mine, your alternator control is dine through a single wire to the ECM on the LIN Network, it can somehow effect the diagnostic systems ability to generate a DTC. Aswell as alternator control problems, the pulley system on the alternator is of a tyoe called an 'overrunning alternator decoupler,' and was made by only one company at the time the car was produced. This company gave it a life span of 50k under optimal conditions. One way to see if you have a power system problem is to look for the check engine light on the DIM when the key is turned to pos2. If it fails to illuminate, it indicates an ECM Power supply problem.

All of the above can play a part in filling the DPF, but a 5v ref fault will also prevent proper regeneration from happening. This is because both the CAT and DPF Temp Sensors are also on the same 5v reference circuit and their values will be dramatically overstated. In other words, the ECM will think the DPF has reached a sufficient temperature for soot.combustion to occur, when infact it's far too cool.

Replacing the DPF or having it cleaned may appear to fix the problem, but it doesn't. You can find yourself back there again in six months. Many Euro4's have suffered this way as any one of a number of sensors on that 5v ref can start the problem. The way the EGR functions only compounds the problem further and in cars that have started to use oil, the EGR's action can actually suck the oil from the engine, past the rings. This is why an HPL system needs the 2nd MAP Sensor for proper control. Sadly it wasn't added until the twin turbo euro5 was released.

It's highly possible you won't have any DTC's for the 5v ref, I didn't. It was the DPF sensor itself that was the issue with mine. I fitted an aftermarket one (buy genuine, after market won't adapt) and the car was actually regenerating at idle. This was because not only was the sensor knackered, but the 5v supply was somehow shorting to the signal (reference) wire inside the connector. What's remarkable, is that the engine would still run in what appeared to be a normal, if not underpowered and rough fashion. I'd always put it down to it having covered nearly 240k. However, sorting the sensor, cleaning the DPF out (I plan to clean the original which I still have and put it back on, I'll explain why below) and replacing the alternator with a remanufactured one, the car has been transformed. The rough idle I'd assumed was due to the engine pads leaking, was infact down to a seized alternator pulley. The DPF Sensor has a BIG effect on engine performance to. You may have heard your car make a sound similar to that of a waste gate/dump valve. A whoosh as you change gear? The D5 has no such valve, it doesn't need one with it's VGT Turbo. The noise is made because the Throttle plate is closing to hold back the boost as a result of the DPF Sensor telling the system there's high exhaust pressure. This is the HPL EGR at work. When you change gear, the throttle plate snaps open briefly creating the wastegate sound. This is also why the 'Soot Filter Full' Message can appear at low speed on a gear change. It's a combination of the overstated values due to the 5v ref fault and a sudden spike in exhaust gas pressure as that held back boost travels through the engine.

With regard to my plans to put the original DPF back on. The engine management is set up to utilize certain sensors for multiple control systems. I.e. Ambient Air Temperature in the MAF also being used for the Smart Charge System. The reason the D5 needs it's original DPF, is because the calculated value is not only used to determine soot loading, but also exhaust pressure for the HPL EGR. If an aftermarket DPF with a flow rate that differs to the original is fitted, this can effect the EGR performance, which in turn can crate DPF Problems.

If you still have the car and even if you've cleaned or replaced the DPF and believe it's sorted, get that 5v Ref checked out. Faults are notoriously difficult to locate and as I've said above, can easily go undetected due to the effect it also has on the Smart Charge System. I had a completely disconnected ABS Sensor I didn't know about until the new alternator went on. I still haven't worked out how it kept the battery charged, but didn't supply sufficient power to the control modules. I know the seized pulley created a battle between the voltage regulator and the ECM and this resulted in a lumpy idle and rough engine. It should have disabled the Smart Charge System and let the alternators inbuilt control module take over, but it didn't.

I replaced the alternator with a 2nd hand one of the same type and correct controller (LIN Controller) and even though the Guy was adamant Volvo themselves had checked it, I broke down. Producing charge isn't enough, the Decoupler Pulley must function correctly and the output must increase when demanded by the PWM signal from the LIN Network controlling it. It inly tales a problem somewhere in the cycle for the whole system to go pear shaped. It was all very new technology at the time. FORDS Smart Charge, FORDS HPL EGR, FORDS DPF System and the LIN Network Control, developed by Volvo, Mercedes, VW, BMW and Audi. They may have worked fine as standalone systems, but working together they were a recipe for disaster. One small fault compounding problems as it effected other control systems. Batyery charging worked as did most other systems. For some reason though, it was only the electrical supply to the ECM. I do wonder however, if maybe the alternator control was shorting and sending power directly back to the ECM via the LIN Control wire. I recall getting 12v between the terminal and a ground. If I'm right, the only voltage from it should have been in the form of a PCM signal, not a constant 12v. Regardless of that, the DPF Problems with those early Euro4's is down to a 5v ref fault and a problem(s) with the Smart Charge System. Remember the 5v ref fault will directly effect smart charge through the ambient temp sensor. There's also the Decoupler Pulley and ECM's ability to communicate properly through the single control wire.

[CW Lincs]

NIckthecook is this truly the definitive answer to the dying 185 Euro 4 issues? I'd love to be able to get mine back on the road if I can without breaking the bank!

[Clan]

Originally Posted by jim888

Been in and out of the garage with this one - started about a year ago with "Soot Filter Full" messages. Tried various injector and DPF cleaner additives without any luck and put it into the garage.

Got a phone call to say the car didn't have a DPF and they couldn't understand why the message was coming up (its a '55 plate S60 163bhp with around 115K on the clock)

They changed out the EGR valve and cleaned the pipes + fitted a new Mass airflow sensor, but a few weeks later, the message came back and now it's gone into limp mode today.

Any ideas as to what else it could be?

There was a service bulletin issued about this problem back then

[jnmonaghan]

Originally Posted by CW Lincs

NIckthecook is this truly the definitive answer to the dying 185 Euro 4 issues? I'd love to be able to get mine back on the road if I can without breaking the bank!

Nickthecook was last on line in May 2019

Jude