240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

As far as i'm aware Alan, the Historic VED Exemption comes on the 40th anniversary of first registration. That means from MARCH this year, the RB is eligible for free/historic raod tax/VED.


OGP 492V
✓ Taxed
Tax due:
1 February 2021
Incorrect tax status?
✓ MOT
Expires:
20 April 2020
Incorrect MOT status?
Warning If you’ve just bought this vehicle the tax or SORN doesn’t come with it. You’ll need to tax it before driving it.
Vehicle Details

Vehicle make
VOLVO
Date of first registration
March 1980
Year of manufacture
1980
Cylinder capacity
2127 cc
CO₂ emissions
Not available
Fuel type
PETROL

https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

Information from the DVLA website and link to same at the bottom.

As you'll have to pay for all of the VED due in March, i would think realistically you could enjoy Historic Road Tax from 1st April this year.

If you wait until next year, it will be 41 years old. I could be wrong and apologies if i am but i'm pretty certain you can get historic tax from this year, worth checking out anyway!

*** EDIT *** Also from March this year, you should be eligible to not have to enter it for MoT, simply making a statement it is roadworthy. However i would suggest an MoT test would still be a wise move, just for your own peace of mind.

Hi Dave,

I'll look into that today - it will be good news indeed if it is April this year (and will save about £250!).

I agree about the MoT test regardless.

Alan

[Othen]

Hi Dave,

It would seem that you are right about the MoT bit, the car will be 40 years old next month and so no longer needs one (I'll get it done anyway). It would seem that the it will not be tax exempt until Apr 21, it looks like all the cars made in 1980 (whichever day) will become exempt on 1 Jan in the year after they turn 40 years old, and then stop paying tax from the start of the next FY (so 1 Apr 21). I think that is right - I found this online (in italics):

If your car dates back to 1979 or earlier, you can stop paying car tax (Vehicle Excise Duty) from April 2020.

That will save you either £160 a year, or £265 if its engine is bigger than 1549cc.

Once a vehicle reaches 40 years old it is classed as “historic” and, although it still has to be taxed every year, there is no charge.

From January the exemption will apply to cars made before 1980 or registered before 8 January 1980.

There are exceptions to the rule, including vehicles used for a business and taxis. Cars that have been substantially altered are also excluded. Exemption from tax begins on 1 April and you cannot claim until that date. To make things more difficult, you cannot apply online.

You need to take several forms to a post office that deals with vehicle tax.

First, form V5C, the modern name for the log book. If you have a tax reminder (form V11) take that, too. You’ll also need a current MOT certificate or a form called V112, which is a declaration by you that your vehicle does not need an MOT (those rules are explained below).

You also need an insurance certificate for the vehicle.

DVLA will return the updated V5C in about four weeks.

A couple of weeks later you’ll get a refund for any whole months of tax you’ve already paid that fall after exemption is granted.

Every year you will be sent a reminder to tax your vehicle and you must apply to retax it, but the charge will be shown as £0.00.

DON’T FORGET THE MOT

Vehicles over 40 are also now exempt from the annual MOT under different rules introduced in 2018 by an EU law.

The rules will remain in force when we leave the EU, unless the Government changes them.

The exemption begins on the 40th anniversary of when the vehicle was first registered.

However, it’s illegal to drive a vehicle that is not roadworthy, so it is wise to get an annual voluntary MOT.

In Northern Ireland, only vehicles made or registered before 1960 are exempt from MOTs. For more information (often confusing), go to: gov.uk and search “historic vehicles”.

That would seem to agree with the DVLA site:

https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles

... I may drop into the post office today to check that out - but my reading is that I'll have to stump up £265 for one more year.

Alan

[Dippydog]

With the 4 lamps below the bumper I think the front end looks too cluttered so I'd agree with your decision to move a pair of them above the bumper-are there rules about the siting of them? i.e. distance inboard from the outer edges of the car.The wing mirrors I'd remove to check/refresh any rust proofing at their mounting holes before refitting them.That roof spoiler really had to go didn't it?!!!Mudflaps also look much better now too.I'm liking the way you seem to be heading with your ideas for the car.

[Laird Scooby]

Looking at the DVLA link Alan, it implies in one section (i should have copied the link from that but forgot, sorry!) that if your car becomes exempt after 8th Jan on a given year, you can apply for historic tax exemption from Jan 1st the following year and they will then refund the tax you've paid after the time it would have been exempt from in the previous year.

All very confusing!

Hopefully your Post Office are fairly switched on about this, why they made it so confusing i'll never know but have my suspicions that it's to stop people using the historic exemption.

Just noticed Dippydog has posted a reply while i'm typing and mentioned the regulations about the lighting, there are regulations but i haven't mentioned them as from what i understand of your plans (fogs under the bumper on the ends, driving lights above the bumper just inboard of the headlights) you won't transgress any of them.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

With the 4 lamps below the bumper I think the front end looks too cluttered so I'd agree with your decision to move a pair of them above the bumper-are there rules about the siting of them? i.e. distance inboard from the outer edges of the car.The wing mirrors I'd remove to check/refresh any rust proofing at their mounting holes before refitting them.That roof spoiler really had to go didn't it?!!!Mudflaps also look much better now too.I'm liking the way you seem to be heading with your ideas for the car.

Thank you for that vote of confidence.

I drove the Royal Barge into town to get some breakfast at the Wetherspoons this morn, and I must say the improvements are quite satisfying already. The annoying rattle from below the instrument panel has fixed itself (maybe I fixed something by accident, maybe the something fell off), the radio, fan and heater controls work properly, the interior lights work, the new wiper blades actually clear water from the screen and the headlamps not only point in the right direction but are also brighter.

On the outside, it is much better without the daft spoiler (maybe the acetone will arrive in the mail today so I can get rid of the adhesive patches) and the standard mud flaps are much better. I’m getting the tyres changed for the right size tomorrow, which should fill the wheel arches better and I hope improve the ride (I suspect the Koni shock absorbers are a bit stiffer than standard, but the PO told me they are adjustable, I have not looked yet).

The additional lights are work in progress. They certainly need wiring properly, and fitting in more sensible places.

I’m still not sure about the wing mirrors. They are next to useless for driving, if I could get rid of them without leaving a mess I’d do so. I’m thinking about that issue.

I was pleased to hear from Dave this morn that the car will be MoT exempt next month (I’ll still get it checked over).

Best wishes,

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Looking at the DVLA link Alan, it implies in one section (i should have copied the link from that but forgot, sorry!) that if your car becomes exempt after 8th Jan on a given year, you can apply for historic tax exemption from Jan 1st the following year and they will then refund the tax you've paid after the time it would have been exempt from in the previous year.

All very confusing!

Hopefully your Post Office are fairly switched on about this, why they made it so confusing i'll never know but have my suspicions that it's to stop people using the historic exemption.

Just noticed Dippydog has posted a reply while i'm typing and mentioned the regulations about the lighting, there are regulations but i haven't mentioned them as from what i understand of your plans (fogs under the bumper on the ends, driving lights above the bumper just inboard of the headlights) you won't transgress any of them.

Thank you Dave,

I agree that this has been made slightly arbitrary to discourage people, saying that, it is very generous of the government to do this in the first place - it is just those pesky civil servants that have interpreted the laws to make it a bit difficult. I'll wait until after 1 April (in 7 weeks time) then try the post office in the Old Village - the lady there seemed to know all about it when I took the Suzuki's documents there a few years ago. I will of course report on how I get on in case the information is useful to others.

I think someone had mentioned the lighting regulations a little while ago - I'll have to scroll up and have a look when I've finished this. From memory it was that the driving lamps should be in the centre, close to the line of the headlamps, which makes sense. I think it said the fog lamps should be near the ends of the bumper and below it. I'm most happy to conform as I think it will look smart and be most effective.

I think I'll move the fog lamps in about 6" from where they are now though - I put the car up on some ramps to change the oil yesterday and had to turn them sideways to get enough clearance, so moving them in a bit would be make that job easier in the future.

I've had a look at the wiring this morn and the Volvo stuff looks very robust, the wires to the existing main beams (for the H4 bulbs) seem to be 1.0mm^2, now I know as an electrician that 1.0mm^2 wire can carry 2.4kW,
it looks (from the wiring diagram you kindly sent me) like the two main beams are wired separately from a relay (I have not looked, but I suspect a single relay with 2 separate outputs) so each wire is only carrying 60W (5A) at the moment. If that is the case it would seem that there is no requirement whatsoever to power the two driving lamps from a new relay, assuming they are about 60W each then they could either both be powered from a connection to one original main beam, or perhaps preferably one from each of the two headlamp main beams. That way (the second option) each conductor would have a load of 120W (10A) for one headlamp and one driving lamp each. There is no need for a separate switch, so the driving lamps would just be operated by the light stalk and I could dispense with most of the web of additional wires.

The two fog lamps are a different matter in that they would need a separate switch in the cabin (the one that is there already, but unused), otherwise they would come on all the time with the lights. I think the relay controlled circuit as described in the link you sent me yesterday (the one that had been photo-shopped, but I can guess how it was executed from the words) would be suitable. Again, it would be a simple installation with just one relay controlled by the switch on the fascia when the light switch is at position 3.

I'm pretty sure that is how I'll do it.

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

The headlamps and front grille might have come from a 244/245GLE or a 260; the DL and GL at that vintage had 7" square lamps with a wider grille:

Yes - see above, this is exactly the way I intend to do it in this picture.

Many thanks,

Alan

PS. For some reason the picture didn't come across with the quote, this is the one I meant:

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Thank you Dave,

I agree that this has been made slightly arbitrary to discourage people, saying that, it is very generous of the government to do this in the first place - it is just those pesky civil servants that have interpreted the laws to make it a bit difficult. I'll wait until after 1 April (in 7 weeks time) then try the post office in the Old Village - the lady there seemed to know all about it when I took the Suzuki's documents there a few years ago. I will of course report on how I get on in case the information is useful to others.

I think someone had mentioned the lighting regulations a little while ago - I'll have to scroll up and have a look when I've finished this. From memory it was that the driving lamps should be in the centre, close to the line of the headlamps, which makes sense. I think it said the fog lamps should be near the ends of the bumper and below it. I'm most happy to conform as I think it will look smart and be most effective.

I think I'll move the fog lamps in about 6" from where they are now though - I put the car up on some ramps to change the oil yesterday and had to turn them sideways to get enough clearance, so moving them in a bit would be make that job easier in the future.

I've had a look at the wiring this morn and the Volvo stuff looks very robust, the wires to the existing main beams (for the H4 bulbs) seem to be 1.0mm^2, now I know as an electrician that 1.0mm^2 wire can carry 2.4kW,
it looks (from the wiring diagram you kindly sent me) like the two main beams are wired separately from a relay (I have not looked, but I suspect a single relay with 2 separate outputs) so each wire is only carrying 60W (5A) at the moment. If that is the case it would seem that there is no requirement whatsoever to power the two driving lamps from a new relay, assuming they are about 60W each then they could either both be powered from a connection to one original main beam, or perhaps preferably one from each of the two headlamp main beams. That way (the second option) each conductor would have a load of 120W (10A) for one headlamp and one driving lamp each. There is no need for a separate switch, so the driving lamps would just be operated by the light stalk and I could dispense with most of the web of additional wires.

The two fog lamps are a different matter in that they would need a separate switch in the cabin (the one that is there already, but unused), otherwise they would come on all the time with the lights. I think the relay controlled circuit as described in the link you sent me yesterday (the one that had been photo-shopped, but I can guess how it was executed from the words) would be suitable. Again, it would be a simple installation with just one relay controlled by the switch on the fascia when the light switch is at position 3.

I'm pretty sure that is how I'll do it.

Alan

Hmmmm, 2.4kW through 1mm^2 cable - on 240V yes, definitely but on 12V?
Don't forget though, that's the AC rating of the cable, DC is usually different.

Also the numbers on the cables in the diagram refer to AWG so the 14 next to the wire refers to 14 AWG which is just over 2mm^2

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

A few points that might help when working it all out, the full beam uses the 55W filament in the H4 lamps and the the H3 (usually) lamps in the auxiliary lights are 55W each.
That's rated at 12V though, remember when the engine is running and the alternator is charging, the voltage will be 14V so the output will be around 66W on each.

That said, if you look on pg3 of the pdf wiring diagram i linked to previously, (also pg30) you will see the driving lamps are simply connected in parallel with the outer main beam filaments. I'd suggest 2.5mm stranded or 28/0.30, although on a short run you'd probably get away with 14/0.30 :

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co....66/category/11

To save confusion on the front fog lamp wiring, here's what i would do.

Run a +ve feed from the sidelight circuit to the front fog lamp switch. Use a relay with a flywheel diode and also use a series diode (1N4000 series is fine) in the switched feed from the switch output.

A relay like this is what i mean with a flywheel diode.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Qual...f/131348827790

From the switch, go through the diode (the series diode, not the one in the relay) to terminal 86 on the relay. Take a cable from terminal 85 on the relay to the main beam feed.
Run a 15A fused feed from battery +ve to terminal 30 on the relay and then from termial 87, run two feeds, one to each front fog lamp. This should go to the flying lead on the lamp, there is a tab on the holder for the erth terminal. Run an earth wire from the light to a convenient earth point, usually the mounting bolt of the light is a good point if it's on the bumper.
In diagram form :



Hope that makes sense and is useful!

[loki_the_glt]

My original lighting set-up on "Olaf the 2 - NGD396V" had both the fog lamps and the driving lamps wired through relays from an ignition live circuit (HRW perhap but it was 30-years ago) to separate dashboard switches with an 8-amp fuse for each lamp. It meant I could use the driving lamps to "flash" oncoming traffic rather than use the main beams, with their latching relay, for that purpose.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Hmmmm, 2.4kW through 1mm^2 cable - on 240V yes, definitely but on 12V?
Don't forget though, that's the AC rating of the cable, DC is usually different.

Also the numbers on the cables in the diagram refer to AWG so the 14 next to the wire refers to 14 AWG which is just over 2mm^2

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

A few points that might help when working it all out, the full beam uses the 55W filament in the H4 lamps and the the H3 (usually) lamps in the auxiliary lights are 55W each.
That's rated at 12V though, remember when the engine is running and the alternator is charging, the voltage will be 14V so the output will be around 66W on each.

That said, if you look on pg3 of the pdf wiring diagram i linked to previously, (also pg30) you will see the driving lamps are simply connected in parallel with the outer main beam filaments. I'd suggest 2.5mm stranded or 28/0.30, although on a short run you'd probably get away with 14/0.30 :

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co....66/category/11

To save confusion on the front fog lamp wiring, here's what i would do.

Run a +ve feed from the sidelight circuit to the front fog lamp switch. Use a relay with a flywheel diode and also use a series diode (1N4000 series is fine) in the switched feed from the switch output.

A relay like this is what i mean with a flywheel diode.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Qual...f/131348827790

From the switch, go through the diode (the series diode, not the one in the relay) to terminal 86 on the relay. Take a cable from terminal 85 on the relay to the main beam feed.
Run a 15A fused feed from battery +ve to terminal 30 on the relay and then from termial 87, run two feeds, one to each front fog lamp. This should go to the flying lead on the lamp, there is a tab on the holder for the erth terminal. Run an earth wire from the light to a convenient earth point, usually the mounting bolt of the light is a good point if it's on the bumper.
In diagram form :



Hope that makes sense and is useful!

Many thanks Dave,

You are right about the I^2R being a bit too high in a 12V system - well spotted. Regard mine as a bit of a gross error check.

I see what you mean about pp3 and pp30 of the quite excellent wiring diagrams you sent me, the additional driving lamps on each side are just wired to the full beam of the adjacent headlamp. I'm guessing they are all 60W bulbs, so we entirely agree on that being a very sensible plan for the driving lights. I might get round to fixing the driving lamps tomorrow before getting the tyres fitted as it won't take long.

Thank you for your work on the fog lamps - yes, I had envisaged something similar although I hadn't drawn it out yet. What I need to do, perhaps on Thursday if time allows, is to take apart what is there already. I'm hoping I'll be able to use some of the wires from the dashboard switch (the scruffy one that is going in the bin) to a relay in order to save me having to pull through more cable. I have not looked yet, but there must be a relay somewhere to control the existing installation, which I might just be able to re-purpose (being an environmentally friendly sort of chap. I'll take some photos as I take the old installation apart if there are any real howlers - I suspect there might be :-)

I'd quite like to get these two jobs done this week as next is half term (my son and I will have a road trip to Devon and Hampshire (not is the Volvo - if the weather isn't too bad we'll take the Porsche, if it is poor we'll use the sensible car (diesel estate car)).

The Royal Barge is coming along quite nicely - at this rate I should have all the jobs on my current to-do list finished by about the end of February (but of course I'll find some more as I go...).

Thank you so much for your help.

Alan