S60 Stereo/DVD: - (and V70) - Software Driven Electronics - eBay users beware! - Page 10

fogster · Dec 13th, 2012, 14:02

I've really enjoyed reading through this thread - here are my thoughts :-)

I went to see a V70 that was for sale from an independent dealer - the dealer informed me the mileage was wrong on the odometer as he'd had to replace the dash (first time I'd heard about the dash fault) - and opened the boot to show me the original dash, sitting there. My point is the new dash worked perfectly in the car (albeit I concede I have no idea if the the car had been to a dealer for a software update since fitting).

I can understand the concept of coding parts via software to some common chassis number, the vast majority of parts that I'd expect to have 'value' on a stolen, broken car (wheels, seats, trim, most engine components, gearbox etc) would not be covered by this 'security' and hence I'm not sure there's much value to the customer in this coding, as sure a thief can't make quite so much money but his main income stream from parts is unaffected, and hence I can't see this stopping a thief stealing a Volvo (if he has the opportunity) where otherwise he would have. On top of this, this 'security' neither stops a thief from stealing a car nor breaking it and unscrupulously selling the bits. I'd don't think that most people wouldn't know about these 'incompatibilities' for used parts and would happily buy, fit (and apparently be able to mostly use, if the dash and other radio stories on here are anything to go by) parts to their car, only for the car to apparently have some sort of malfunction when it next visits the dealer - causing the individual caught out by the thief both the loss in money paid to the thief, and the cost of them fixing whatever the Volvo dealer computer apparently disables.

In summary, I don't perceive this to be security - it neither really seems to provide a dis-insentive to a thief not to steal a car and only harms the person who buys the part - logically some time later (during a dealing visit), and hence with little comeback on the person who stole and broke the 'stolen' donor vehicle.

Finally - UKTech raises a great point -I've searched these forums and cannot find a single post where anyone has said 'I've replaced by xxx module, took it to the garage and now they disabled my car!' - or anything similar. Looking at the breadth of posts and accumulated wisdom on these forums, it's a little hard to believe that not one person has ever done this and come here to ask for advice. I'm not saying that this is urban myth, but I can't find any evidence of any post anywhere to back this up - on this site or anywhere else. I know it sounds a bit far-fetched to believe that such an urban myth could exist and be propagated but, before you flame me - consider this. You know when you go into a petrol station and they have notices telling you 'No mobile phones'? If you look, most petrol stations in the UK have them but some (I think Shell?) are no longer putting those up. Why? It is a total, utter myth that gained some momentum in the early nineties and spiralled out of control and only now is that being acknowledged. It fooled everyone - the whole petroleum industry. You may as well say 'don't scratch your head'! There has not ever been a single confirmed cause of a mobile phone ever causing a fire at a petrol station. To back up my statement, take a look here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4366337.stm or here [http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...08-102bm.html] for example. Now try finding a link anywhere that states a fire was caused by a mobile - there aren't any (not that I can find)! You'll find some goofy YouTube videos but all are hoaxes (nothing more the viral videos) - you'll find no reliable source at all!

And so to UKTech's point... I absolutely understand that there could be issues using parts coded from one car and moving them to another - but I don't think this is due to security and, as to the severity of the impact those issues cause, where are the posts from people saying they've done exactly this, asking for help or advice? On the current evidence it seems incompatibilities may well happen (e.g. steering wheel buttons not working on radio swaps) but whether or not a subsequent visit to the dealer somehow disables part of (or the whole) car seems unlikely, given the lack of posts asking for advice following such an event.

I absolutely do not want to say 'I'm right' when I'm wrong for fear of damaging both my own car in future, or other people reading the points I've raised, being swayed by my thoughts and then doing something to damage their car. I'm just asking someone on here to either say 'this happened to me' or 'I was working on a customer's car last week where the customer had swapped xxx from a donor car and now we've had to do yyy to fix it'! :-)

spokoluzik · Dec 18th, 2012, 00:50

Have silly question. Did you buy this car???
By the way is a bit complicated to use parts from one vehicle in another, but from my experience possible.

fogster · Dec 18th, 2012, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by spokoluzik

Have silly question. Did you buy this car???
By the way is a bit complicated to use parts from one vehicle in another, but from my experience possible.

Not a silly question :-)

No, we decided against it and instead bought a 2002 171k mile D5 SE :-)

Norfolk Jim · Jan 3rd, 2013, 09:52

Wow fogster. We had a similar issue on the Saab Tech forum about alarms and people saying not possible but no one could say it happened to them. In fact something that all said couldn't be fixed was fixed by someone and they posted up how they'd done it. Myth then disappeared....................

When I was talking to my main dealer about RICA tuning they just said 'if you bring the car in just make sure we know you've had the tune done so we can input into VIDA or it will not install any updates....' which is quite interesting. That to me says they can change things just like the Saab TechII system could.

Well lets see what happens when my car arrives which is a 54 Reg V70 D5 Geartronic.

fogster · Jan 3rd, 2013, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norfolk Jim

Wow fogster. We had a similar issue on the Saab Tech forum about alarms and people saying not possible but no one could say it happened to them. In fact something that all said couldn't be fixed was fixed by someone and they posted up how they'd done it. Myth then disappeared....................

...Well lets see what happens when my car arrives which is a 54 Reg V70 D5 Geartronic.

Hi Jim,

Do keep us informed of progress - I'd love to find out one way or another exactly how bad the problem is. I note that the previous poster hints that, whilst it may be tricky, it can be done (at least in some circumstances).

Good luck! :-)

Steve

fogster · Jan 3rd, 2013, 11:17

Just a quick update - here's something on another site that suggested a DDM swap-out worked fine (as that's what I'm considering). The OP then posted again at a later date to redirect another user asking a similar question to the post - it appears he gets his car serviced (and hence software updated) and hence it seems that swapping the DDM in this instance may have worked without issue...

OP:
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/for...ic.php?t=23510

Follow up post:
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/for...hp?f=9&t=26624

Just more examples of people having swapped bits without any mention of it hosing their Volvo...! :-)

Norfolk Jim · Jan 4th, 2013, 09:26

This is very interesting. Yesterday when speaking to main dealer I mentioned this and he said it was news to him! He said there's nothing on VIDA that would shut down the electric on the car itself.

The system checks how up to date all the software is and looks for any upgrades and asks if they can be updated.

He also told me the system works like the Saab TechII system (he worked on Saabs for 12 years before Volvo). You can fit used radio's as system can divorce from other car if you have a VIN and marry to new car. He suspects the steering wheel and lights issue are because this hasn't been done. It would answer the reason why some of the members have been able to fit them without problems.

He said Volvo doesn't have the right to effectively shut down a customers car. They can inform them it will be reported to the necessary body but they can't just do it.

Diymanic · Apr 17th, 2013, 00:35

My two pennies..... If I drive it into to Volvo, with something they don't like fitted, and they do something to it so I can't drive it away..... They are liable simple as that.
I can understand swapping stereos around may cause some issues but that can happen on any car....but probably will be fine.
fogster, you get my vote!
UKtech, you too!
As far as I can see no one has responded to UKtech's challenge? Why is this well... on other sites closer to my own personal field of expertise (electronics tech for nigh on 30 years) I see people trying to sound like they know what they are talking about, but they don't, they just repeat things they hear as if it’s their own knowledge, they have no substance to back up what they say.... but they heard such and such say this and that...
So to recap.... no response to UKtech...... and that was a while ago!

Norfolk Jim · Apr 23rd, 2013, 15:26

I had a chat with the Volvo Technician I used at the weekend and mentioned this to him and he said 'Oh not that old chestnut again....' He laughed and said it's not possible. The only way the Volvo could be shut down is if an idiot was playing with VIDA and DICE and had no idea what they were doing.

He said Volvo aren't interested if you've swapped radio's etc and if as we said they are divorced from old car they should work ok in new car and may just need 'tweaking/re-coding' to ensure all things work correct.

Interestingly as far as he knew the car itself is not linked into Sweden but purely to your dealers system which has all the up to date software on it. All that does is checks it against what your own vehicle has already installed and tells you what's available if you want to pay for it to be installed.

This is what I was told at dealers when I booked mine in for TCM software update. he explained to me it was not possible to know what my TCM currently was and will only know if the car accepts the new downloaded stuff. If it already has it or is not compatible it simply will not download it to the car.

It simply will not allow anything to download to the car that is either already installed or is not compatible. It will not overwrite stuff - I think this answers the question really - the car cannot and will not be locked down by Volvo.

Stekelly · Jun 30th, 2013, 09:52

So have we reached a conclusion that things can indeed be swapped? Before reading this thread I picked up a few bits cheap that I wanted to use to upgrade my interior thinking it would be a simple swap like in other cars ive had. I have the climate control panel ( when I install it theres a couple of bulbs gone and it doesnt dim with thd rest of the dash when I roll the dimmer. Most of it works fine but it doesnt switch off with the rest of the intsruments when the key is taken out so the lights stay on it and it stays running if it was on) , as well as the centre speaker and amp with the intention of picking up a hu-801. Should I quit while im behind?

Mines an s80

Dec 13th, 2012, 14:02	#91
fogster V70 convert...! Last Online: Feb 11th, 2017 12:06 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Streatley	I've really enjoyed reading through this thread - here are my thoughts :-) I went to see a V70 that was for sale from an independent dealer - the dealer informed me the mileage was wrong on the odometer as he'd had to replace the dash (first time I'd heard about the dash fault) - and opened the boot to show me the original dash, sitting there. My point is the new dash worked perfectly in the car (albeit I concede I have no idea if the the car had been to a dealer for a software update since fitting). I can understand the concept of coding parts via software to some common chassis number, the vast majority of parts that I'd expect to have 'value' on a stolen, broken car (wheels, seats, trim, most engine components, gearbox etc) would not be covered by this 'security' and hence I'm not sure there's much value to the customer in this coding, as sure a thief can't make quite so much money but his main income stream from parts is unaffected, and hence I can't see this stopping a thief stealing a Volvo (if he has the opportunity) where otherwise he would have. On top of this, this 'security' neither stops a thief from stealing a car nor breaking it and unscrupulously selling the bits. I'd don't think that most people wouldn't know about these 'incompatibilities' for used parts and would happily buy, fit (and apparently be able to mostly use, if the dash and other radio stories on here are anything to go by) parts to their car, only for the car to apparently have some sort of malfunction when it next visits the dealer - causing the individual caught out by the thief both the loss in money paid to the thief, and the cost of them fixing whatever the Volvo dealer computer apparently disables. In summary, I don't perceive this to be security - it neither really seems to provide a dis-insentive to a thief not to steal a car and only harms the person who buys the part - logically some time later (during a dealing visit), and hence with little comeback on the person who stole and broke the 'stolen' donor vehicle. Finally - UKTech raises a great point -I've searched these forums and cannot find a single post where anyone has said 'I've replaced by xxx module, took it to the garage and now they disabled my car!' - or anything similar. Looking at the breadth of posts and accumulated wisdom on these forums, it's a little hard to believe that not one person has ever done this and come here to ask for advice. I'm not saying that this is urban myth, but I can't find any evidence of any post anywhere to back this up - on this site or anywhere else. I know it sounds a bit far-fetched to believe that such an urban myth could exist and be propagated but, before you flame me - consider this. You know when you go into a petrol station and they have notices telling you 'No mobile phones'? If you look, most petrol stations in the UK have them but some (I think Shell?) are no longer putting those up. Why? It is a total, utter myth that gained some momentum in the early nineties and spiralled out of control and only now is that being acknowledged. It fooled everyone - the whole petroleum industry. You may as well say 'don't scratch your head'! There has not ever been a single confirmed cause of a mobile phone ever causing a fire at a petrol station. To back up my statement, take a look here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4366337.stm or here [http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...08-102bm.html] for example. Now try finding a link anywhere that states a fire was caused by a mobile - there aren't any (not that I can find)! You'll find some goofy YouTube videos but all are hoaxes (nothing more the viral videos) - you'll find no reliable source at all! And so to UKTech's point... I absolutely understand that there could be issues using parts coded from one car and moving them to another - but I don't think this is due to security and, as to the severity of the impact those issues cause, where are the posts from people saying they've done exactly this, asking for help or advice? On the current evidence it seems incompatibilities may well happen (e.g. steering wheel buttons not working on radio swaps) but whether or not a subsequent visit to the dealer somehow disables part of (or the whole) car seems unlikely, given the lack of posts asking for advice following such an event. I absolutely do not want to say 'I'm right' when I'm wrong for fear of damaging both my own car in future, or other people reading the points I've raised, being swayed by my thoughts and then doing something to damage their car. I'm just asking someone on here to either say 'this happened to me' or 'I was working on a customer's car last week where the customer had swapped xxx from a donor car and now we've had to do yyy to fix it'! :-) Last edited by fogster; Dec 13th, 2012 at 14:16.

Dec 18th, 2012, 00:50	#92
spokoluzik Trader Last Online: Dec 6th, 2023 19:46 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: london	Have silly question. Did you buy this car??? By the way is a bit complicated to use parts from one vehicle in another, but from my experience possible. __________________ http://volvodiagnostic.com/

Jun 30th, 2013, 09:52	#100
Stekelly Member Last Online: May 31st, 2016 08:16 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Dublin	So have we reached a conclusion that things can indeed be swapped? Before reading this thread I picked up a few bits cheap that I wanted to use to upgrade my interior thinking it would be a simple swap like in other cars ive had. I have the climate control panel ( when I install it theres a couple of bulbs gone and it doesnt dim with thd rest of the dash when I roll the dimmer. Most of it works fine but it doesnt switch off with the rest of the intsruments when the key is taken out so the lights stay on it and it stays running if it was on) , as well as the centre speaker and amp with the intention of picking up a hu-801. Should I quit while im behind? Mines an s80 Last edited by Stekelly; Jun 30th, 2013 at 09:54.

Jan 3rd, 2013, 09:52	#94
Norfolk Jim Norfolk Jim Last Online: Dec 7th, 2015 20:49 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sittin on a fence near Naarich	Wow fogster. We had a similar issue on the Saab Tech forum about alarms and people saying not possible but no one could say it happened to them. In fact something that all said couldn't be fixed was fixed by someone and they posted up how they'd done it. Myth then disappeared.................... When I was talking to my main dealer about RICA tuning they just said 'if you bring the car in just make sure we know you've had the tune done so we can input into VIDA or it will not install any updates....' which is quite interesting. That to me says they can change things just like the Saab TechII system could. Well lets see what happens when my car arrives which is a 54 Reg V70 D5 Geartronic.

Jan 3rd, 2013, 11:17	#96
fogster V70 convert...! Last Online: Feb 11th, 2017 12:06 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Streatley	Just a quick update - here's something on another site that suggested a DDM swap-out worked fine (as that's what I'm considering). The OP then posted again at a later date to redirect another user asking a similar question to the post - it appears he gets his car serviced (and hence software updated) and hence it seems that swapping the DDM in this instance may have worked without issue... OP: http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/for...ic.php?t=23510 Follow up post: http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/for...hp?f=9&t=26624 Just more examples of people having swapped bits without any mention of it hosing their Volvo...! :-)

Jan 4th, 2013, 09:26	#97
Norfolk Jim Norfolk Jim Last Online: Dec 7th, 2015 20:49 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sittin on a fence near Naarich	This is very interesting. Yesterday when speaking to main dealer I mentioned this and he said it was news to him! He said there's nothing on VIDA that would shut down the electric on the car itself. The system checks how up to date all the software is and looks for any upgrades and asks if they can be updated. He also told me the system works like the Saab TechII system (he worked on Saabs for 12 years before Volvo). You can fit used radio's as system can divorce from other car if you have a VIN and marry to new car. He suspects the steering wheel and lights issue are because this hasn't been done. It would answer the reason why some of the members have been able to fit them without problems. He said Volvo doesn't have the right to effectively shut down a customers car. They can inform them it will be reported to the necessary body but they can't just do it.

Apr 17th, 2013, 00:35	#98
Diymanic Junior Member Last Online: Sep 29th, 2015 00:11 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Nr Glasgow	My two pennies..... If I drive it into to Volvo, with something they don't like fitted, and they do something to it so I can't drive it away..... They are liable simple as that. I can understand swapping stereos around may cause some issues but that can happen on any car....but probably will be fine. fogster, you get my vote! UKtech, you too! As far as I can see no one has responded to UKtech's challenge? Why is this well... on other sites closer to my own personal field of expertise (electronics tech for nigh on 30 years) I see people trying to sound like they know what they are talking about, but they don't, they just repeat things they hear as if it’s their own knowledge, they have no substance to back up what they say.... but they heard such and such say this and that... So to recap.... no response to UKtech...... and that was a while ago!

Apr 23rd, 2013, 15:26	#99
Norfolk Jim Norfolk Jim Last Online: Dec 7th, 2015 20:49 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sittin on a fence near Naarich	I had a chat with the Volvo Technician I used at the weekend and mentioned this to him and he said 'Oh not that old chestnut again....' He laughed and said it's not possible. The only way the Volvo could be shut down is if an idiot was playing with VIDA and DICE and had no idea what they were doing. He said Volvo aren't interested if you've swapped radio's etc and if as we said they are divorced from old car they should work ok in new car and may just need 'tweaking/re-coding' to ensure all things work correct. Interestingly as far as he knew the car itself is not linked into Sweden but purely to your dealers system which has all the up to date software on it. All that does is checks it against what your own vehicle has already installed and tells you what's available if you want to pay for it to be installed. This is what I was told at dealers when I booked mine in for TCM software update. he explained to me it was not possible to know what my TCM currently was and will only know if the car accepts the new downloaded stuff. If it already has it or is not compatible it simply will not download it to the car. It simply will not allow anything to download to the car that is either already installed or is not compatible. It will not overwrite stuff - I think this answers the question really - the car cannot and will not be locked down by Volvo.

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