Brake lights in stationary traffic

[nu11eaf]

Just been having a little discussion on the Mark 1 XC90 forum about drivers keeping their foot on the brake pedal in stationary traffic and annoying the driver behind, especially at night or in rain and thought I bring it here.

It has been mention on here before about auto hold keeping the brake lights on even when foot is not on the brake pedal but I wondered how many new owners are aware of this.

We get used to our new cars doing everything for us these days and some of us get out of the habit of applying the parking brake, which will even come on automatically when engine turned off if the box is ticked.
With stop/start systems I think it is even more of a habit for some of us of stopping and just getting foot ready to press the accelerator to start engine and set off.

I got out of the habit of using the parking brake with my MK 1 XC90's which was manual pull lever and clunky release but I always put the gear selector to park and took my foot off the brake, (no auto hold)

When I first got my new version I just relied on auto hold as I was not aware the brake lights stayed on, now if anyone is stopped behind me I have been slipping into park which also applies the parking brake and releases the foot brake if auto hold is active to stop the dazzle, but I have to admit I don't always remember to do it.

Thinking about it, this usually starts engine again as you go through reverse, which is not desirable in standing traffic so I should be applying the electric park brake instead which will release the foot brake/lights. I must get into the habit of using it.

This section from highway code below was the point of the discussion and I am not trying to lecture anyone as I still forget but just wondered how many are unaware that the brake lights stay on with auto hold, as I used to be until another forum post.

Section from the highway code
In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again

[Legrand]

Agree. I see no good reason for break lights to be on when auto-hold activated. Manual hand breaks don't activate break lights, why then should auto-hold?

[nu11eaf]

I think it must be a safety issue to warn approaching drivers you are stopped, the highway code suggests applying the parking brake and leaving brake lights on until the following traffic has stopped, before taking foot off the brake.This would also apply if auto hold is used.

[Philip Fisher]

Luckily Highway code say "should" and not "must".....

[nu11eaf]

Originally Posted by Philip Fisher

Luckily Highway code say "should" and not "must".....

In deed, when I was involved in industrial negotiations it was critical to get these words correct as well as may be instead of shall be etc.

[gaby]

Originally Posted by nu11eaf

Just been having a little discussion on the Mark 1 XC90 forum about drivers keeping their foot on the brake pedal in stationary traffic and annoying the driver behind, especially at night or in rain and thought I bring it here.

More than annoying to me, they can be blinding!
I avoid it myself by switching to N, then I only have to touch the brakes
for a short moment to get back in D when I can drive on.

[Chief inspector]

Mercedes had this feature first, as is common with modern cars, the LED brake lights are much brighter than the type approval requires, so MB’s drop the brightness from full to legal minimum on hold, but Ive noticed that Volvo’s stay at full brightness.

The problem with putting most autos into park, apart from the delay, is that with a traditional gate, it can show the traffic behind your reverse lights going back to drive, which may cause a panic to the following vehicle. The ‘hold’ Mercs can go from park to reverse without going through reverse, but you did have to wrestle with their stupid parking brake.

If takes a bit of doing, but as with headlights, dont look into them. If you’ve done Rospa or IAM they have a bit on this, or at least they used to.

I do think they should dim a bit though, and that it should be part of the type approval

[GreenBrick]

Pity it is not on all MB models, some late E class saloons' LED brake lights are painful, and do not dim.

Still not as bad a fog lights on at the first sign of mist.... But that is another discussion....

[jamei305]

Originally Posted by nu11eaf

Section from the highway code
In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again

The Highway Code is typically out-of-date in relation to modern vehicles.

The actual law requires that you don't cause "undue dazzle". Undue means "unjustifiable; improper", or "unjustifiably excessive".

I certainly don't think using the vehicle as the manufacturer intended here (i.e. autohold in a queue of traffic) could be regarded as an offence. The vehicle has after all received EU type approval.

FWIW I don't think brake lights can in any situation cause undue dazzle, because they are no brighter than approved LED red traffic lamps for use in temporary traffic signals, often situated at a similar height.

[Wizzpop]

Originally Posted by jamei305

FWIW I don't think brake lights can in any situation cause undue dazzle, because they are no brighter than approved LED red traffic lamps for use in temporary traffic signals, often situated at a similar height.

Try sitting behind a car waiting at a level crossing. After a while the bright brake lights, especially the high one in the centre, are quite distracting.