1800: cranks but won't start [sound attached]

[tabin]

Hey gents,

Some answers:
- Yes, I had the car running a few weeks back.
- I did check the fuel by taking off the fuel pipe right at the carbs (after the fuel filter) and cranked the engine for about / at most a second. I ended up with about a cup of fuel in the little bucket I put the pipe in to (could be a bit more)
- I did not fiddle with the timing or distributor recently
- I dont have an imobilizer fitted
- The timing order is 1-3-4-2 ccw, with 1 being the front cylinder and it's lead being about 11 o'clock on the dizzy
- I did not change the jet positions on the carbs

Those of you mentioning the condenser were probably right, as I remember at least one sparks sparking yellowish/orange instead of blueish.

I guess it is worth checking / replacing the points as well? After all a condenser and points are not the most expensive thing in the world. I just need to find the right ones, I guess. Does it matter which capacitor I get or should it just fit '1 237 330 067'? I found a couple of them that all claim to fit: part-numbers F2040-55835, F2040-24411/BOS, F2040-270606.

Once I've done this and it still is not starting I'll go and do what mitch suggested, that is checking the jets and the floats, unless youse recommend doing it the other way around.

[tabin]

Short update:

I had to get the condenser ordered directly from Bosch, so I won't be able to change it before next week.

So since I have some time on my hands now, what I will do on the week-end is, check the cap, the rotor and the points, while I am at that end fixing things. Who knows I might pick up some more issues...

PS - I put up some pictures of her later so youse know what beauty you are actually helping to fix!

[tabin]

So, here are some pictures of my second girl-friend

[Derek UK]

That looks VERY nice. Envious of the sun too!
Are you a member here? http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/volvo1800120oz/
Would be a good idea for local help.

[kforrest]

Stunning car! It's going to be the points or condensor for sure....

[tabin]

Hey Guys,

I've been on holiday for two weeks (yay!) and after sorting all the domestic stuff out, I finally found some time to work on my beauty again.

I got a condenser that fits '1 237 330 067' and so I went down to dismantle the dizzy. Some odd things I noticed though - or maybe there perfectly normal - to make sure, I'd like to get some expertise from youse (I've attached some photos of the dizzy).

First of all there was no hose attached to the vacuum regulator, second of all it all looks a bit messy. Please bare with me, this is the first time I ever dismanteld a distributor.

Should I just go ahead and check the points while I got the thing out (and how do I do this) or should I go and fit the condenser and give it a go?

Thanks again for all your help!

Cheers

[swedishandgerman]

Ah! That's a good type of distributor you have there. Are the last 3 numbers on the plate 003 or 009?

Basically, you have a SVDA (single vacuum dual advance) distributor and the vacuum unit on that one is a vacuum advance. This gives you some advance under load at low RPM (when you open the throttle) and you also have 2 advance weights on springs that go out at different rates giving you a varying amount of advance throughout a rev range.

If you're taking that distributor apart completely, it's worth getting a shaft kit that includes all the shims, bushes and clips. However, my advice is that if it's working alright and there's not too much play in the shaft, there's no point in completely dismantling it - it's easy to ruin the springs and the gasket type thing that sits under the springs. You can give it a hell of a good clean up and re-grease just by taking out the points base plate

An easy way to check the operation is to twist the rotor arm - it should have good tension and spring back. If it doesn't spring back then you might have stretched springs or the holes in the weights might be worn. Otherwise, the spring and weights could just do with a good clean up and soak in oil

Whack your new points and condensor in there. Undo the points screw, undo the connector and the points will lift out. Refitting is the reverse. With the screw done up with little resistance, open up the points so that the gap is correct using your feeler guage when the points arm is on the highest part of one of the cams. Then tighten the screw and put a smear of grease of the cam

With reference to your vacuum unit, you can test it by sucking it. It should hold vacuum. If it doesn't, it's had it and replacements the bad news is that replacements are difficult. Provided you have the correct carbs fitted, there should be a vacuum nipple at the bottom of one of the carbs and a pipe connecting. Sometimes, the pipe gets ditched if the vac unit's not working - that's kind of OK because you get max advance without the vac unit, but you miss out on a bit of advance at low rpm resulting in a little less liveliness and a slight drop in fuel consumption

If you have a strobe timing light, you can check it all. At idle, with the vac pipe unattached, set it at about 9.5 degs. With the pipe attched at the dist, but unattached at the carb, suck the pipe and it should advance by about 6 degs. At about 3,600rpm, total advance on that type of distributor is about 36degs. This should make it run well, but if it pinks, turn it back!

[tabin]

Thank you heaps for this answer - That helped me a lot!

Sorry for not getting back earlier - somehow being on leave always turns out to take up more time off my hands than when not ;-)

I checked the vacuum pump and it is still good (i.e. it can hold a vacuum when sucked on), BUT the thing is there was no connection between the pump and the carbs at all. (Maybe that could also be a cause for her plugs to be burning out quicker than normal?)

I'll have a look at them carbs tomorrow and check whether I can find a nipple or even a pipe that's hanging around there.

I am not planning to take the dizzy apart completely.

I will give it a thorough clean as you suggested swedishandgerman.

Can I reuse the old points or is that really not advisable?

I am putting the new condeser in as I am writing (waiting for the soldering iron to come on)

Also the dizzys number is 0 231146 077 (JFUR4) and it's a Bosch of course.

[tabin]

hmm i just read up in the specs and it did says that my dizzy (JFUR4) is normally used for with a B20 engine. But this one has a B18 engine in it, although my car is from early '69. Could that be/cause any issue(s)? and is that maybe why I dont have a vacuum control hose after all?

The specs also read totally different pre-ignition values (start, end and total) and degree values for the two dizzys (JFR4 and JFUR4), while the points clearance and weight pressure are similar.

I am not completely sure of the meaning of the pre-ignition values but am guessing they refer to the rpm's where my timing will be advanced?

Unfortunately I don't have an strobe timing light.

Also I am starting to wonder whether I should get a completely new dizzy.

[Derek UK]

Some notes: Regardless of the distributor you fit, you should be able to get the car to start if it's timed up right. Your car is a case in point as it's been running OK if not at its best. The dizzy in your pic looks to be for a B20A. This gives vacuum retard and not advance. That's why it's not connected. The B18B (assumed) in your car would normally have had a fully mechanical advance i.e. no vacuum mechanism. Therefore no need to have a take off at the rear carb near the butterfly spindle but they are sometimes there but plugged.
The new condenser shown is for a B18A dizzy and needs a U clamp which attaches it to the body with 2 screws. You can see that the attachment plate on yours is part of the condensor. The fitting at the end of the wire is also different.
New points, cap and rotor are always a good idea but renewing them may not make any difference in this case. The critical connection is where the wire from the points inside connects through to the condensor outside. There are a pair of insulating washers and several small steel ones along with the metal clip. It's easy to fit these in the wrong order or tighten them in such a way as to distort the connection. If any of the metal parts contact the dizzy body it shorts out the low tension circuit. The clip on the end of the points wire can splay out or twist, and touch body for instance. Result is no start.
You can wash it all down with carb cleaner or similar and the dirt and liquid will drain out of the hole underneath. Reoil the advance mechanism, the felt under the rotor and the side oiler. a dab of grease on the cam as well.
Make sure the wire from the dizzy to the coil is 100% good.
Keep at it and good luck.