Turbo motor ID

[classicswede]

Yes L jet but I am not aware of L jet being used in turbo applications.

If its all NA engine control then that would explain the pinging on both fuels


And yes refering to the Volvo engines rather than Renault

[Laird Scooby]

I know the Janspeed Datsun 240K/Skyline Mk2 GT turbo used L-Jetronic but that was an aftermarket conversion. Some parts were badged "Hitachi" but they were simply Bosch L-Jet under licence.

Also the original B230ET on the 740 turbos was essentially an L-Jetronic system badged as Motronic on later models. It still used the flap air-flow meter and AAV for cold start.

However it seems as if there has been a right mish-mash of parts on this car - i could be wrong but it seems cobbled together with various parts that although they fit, don't necessarily work!

My money is still on timing and/or advance weights stuck in the dizzy or maybe a vac leak somewhere.

That said, if it is a vac leak, unless it's an SGi LPG system, it's likely to seriously effect the LPG, especially on idle.

[DQ81]

I was told the engine was swapped in in Sweden although I'm thinking it was done here in The Netherlands. I'm thinking to engine comes out of a 360glt and is an b200f.

The flap maf and ecu numbers match a 340/360 number on a site or two...

I didn't see a 5th injector but definitely the auxiliary air valve.

Here are some pics:

The engine bay:





What seems to be an ignition/fuel pump.relay:



Ignition related?




The auxiliary air valve:



The dizzy internals:



Casting numbers:

[Laird Scooby]

You know how some people can take one of your photos and draw red or green or yellow or whatever colour lines on it to show where something is then repost it?

I can't!

I'll have to describe where the 5th injector is instead!

Look at the first pic, around the throttle body area. There are two sets of brown wires earthing out on the manifold/throttle body and if you follow them to where they appear to go into one common piece of sleeving there is a black pipe with a rusty looking ferrule on it looking as if it goes into the throttle body from underneath.

That should be the banjo fitting on the end of the cold start/5th injector which points up and into the inlet manifold/throttle body. If you look at the diagram i posted last night you'll see it makes sense.

The bit you say "Ignition Related?" is the ignition amplifier module. Purely as a precaution, i would remove it, clean the back (which should be aluminium) with a non-abrasive solution like isopropyl alcohol or similar, clean the mating face where the aluminium meets the body the same way then when dry, smear some heatsink compound/thermal transfer paste onto the back of the amp and refit, sliding it around a little to sread the compound around evenly.

This is simply a preventative maintenance task - once the compound gets old it loses its effectiveness and dries out but i've found many over the years with no compound on at all.
This will improve the cooling of the ignition amplifier, prolonging its life.

The dizzy is as i expected, difficult to see the advance weights in that shot as they're under the base plate which can be removed after the rotor arm, disc for the Hall Effect sensor and the securing screws are removed. Probably safest to unplug the ignition/HE sensor wires from the dizzy and remove it to pull the baseplate out on the bench. Then check the advance weights and also the vacuum advance.

Looks like a very old skool LPG conversion with a simple power regulator valve in line between the mixer and vapouriser. If it works though, i'm not knocking it!

[DQ81]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

You know how some people can take one of your photos and draw red or green or yellow or whatever colour lines on it to show where something is then repost it?

I can't!

I'll have to describe where the 5th injector is instead!

Look at the first pic, around the throttle body area. There are two sets of brown wires earthing out on the manifold/throttle body and if you follow them to where they appear to go into one common piece of sleeving there is a black pipe with a rusty looking ferrule on it looking as if it goes into the throttle body from underneath.

That should be the banjo fitting on the end of the cold start/5th injector which points up and into the inlet manifold/throttle body. If you look at the diagram i posted last night you'll see it makes sense.

The bit you say "Ignition Related?" is the ignition amplifier module. Purely as a precaution, i would remove it, clean the back (which should be aluminium) with a non-abrasive solution like isopropyl alcohol or similar, clean the mating face where the aluminium meets the body the same way then when dry, smear some heatsink compound/thermal transfer paste onto the back of the amp and refit, sliding it around a little to sread the compound around evenly.

This is simply a preventative maintenance task - once the compound gets old it loses its effectiveness and dries out but i've found many over the years with no compound on at all.
This will improve the cooling of the ignition amplifier, prolonging its life.

The dizzy is as i expected, difficult to see the advance weights in that shot as they're under the base plate which can be removed after the rotor arm, disc for the Hall Effect sensor and the securing screws are removed. Probably safest to unplug the ignition/HE sensor wires from the dizzy and remove it to pull the baseplate out on the bench. Then check the advance weights and also the vacuum advance.

Looks like a very old skool LPG conversion with a simple power regulator valve in line between the mixer and vapouriser. If it works though, i'm not knocking it!

Oh you can knock it haha. It's a pretty crappy setup. If I can I'd like to keep this EFI system but the pinging is pointing me to do something else.

This engine and box will be pulled and put in another 245, so I can clean up the wiring or even install different managment.

I believe you on the 5th injector. I'l pull the dizzy apart and see if the weights are stuck and if that relieves the pinging. Otherwise it's another system.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if this motor is turbo'd stock or not so I can figure out how far I could take it.

I starts, runs and idles smooth. It pulls ok but starts to ping under load pretty quickly. That needs to be fixed.

[Laird Scooby]

If it was a 360 engine as the donor then i doubt it was turbo'd as standard. Also what Dai (Classicswede) mentions about it running on 360 engine management possibly being the cause of the pinking could well be right.

If, as i suspect, it was a "backstreet turbo job" then i doubt they did anything to drop the compression ratio so you've probably got something like 10:1 compression so even the slightest boost is going to give you pre-ignition/pinging/pinking and it's going to boost as soon as you get some load on it.

You could change the engine management, i know the Emerald K6 will cover fuel and ignition and also has switchable maps so you could even change it to LPG and use the same ECU for both if you were doing a custom install.

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/

I believe you can switch between maps with a simple dashboard mounted switch or set it to change over from one to the other once certain parameters are met, same as a normal LPG ECU operates.

Just another option! You would of course have to fit LPG injectors and a reducer rather than a vapouriser but should be fairly easy to do that without having to change the engine and/or too much of the loom.

[DQ81]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

If it was a 360 engine as the donor then i doubt it was turbo'd as standard. Also what Dai (Classicswede) mentions about it running on 360 engine management possibly being the cause of the pinking could well be right.

If, as i suspect, it was a "backstreet turbo job" then i doubt they did anything to drop the compression ratio so you've probably got something like 10:1 compression so even the slightest boost is going to give you pre-ignition/pinging/pinking and it's going to boost as soon as you get some load on it.

You could change the engine management, i know the Emerald K6 will cover fuel and ignition and also has switchable maps so you could even change it to LPG and use the same ECU for both if you were doing a custom install.

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/

I believe you can switch between maps with a simple dashboard mounted switch or set it to change over from one to the other once certain parameters are met, same as a normal LPG ECU operates.

Just another option! You would of course have to fit LPG injectors and a reducer rather than a vapouriser but should be fairly easy to do that without having to change the engine and/or too much of the loom.

If I run this in a car of my own it will get an LPG system with injectors... I'll have a look at the Emerald.

I've read a bit on Tbricks and other forums about +T conversions to NA engines and there are some benefits if you keep it mild...

I could also fit an LH2.4 system but the emerald looks interesting, like most, I'm on a budget though...

[Laird Scooby]

Using a "lo-blo" turbo would work well, mostly called low pressure turbos and generally about 3-6psi of boost, just enough to call it boost really that might be your most cost effective option.

A gauge and manual boost controller to keep the boost down then wind it up gently until it pinks then turn it down slightly would probably be your best option.

If you're transferring the engine/box into another 245, i'd suggest sorting the pinking, retaining the L-Jetronic and adding a secondhand SGi LPG kit.

The Emerald would be nice but if the budget says no, this would be the next best combination IMHO.

Might be worth checking to see what the turbo is boosting at now before delving too deep into what the dizzy and timing are doing.

[classicswede]

Its looking like a right mix and match

B200 engine
360 fuel system?
240 distributor and ignition module
B23ET/B230ET blow off valve but you said the turbo is a td04?
Intercooler looks to be a 940 with AC one
PAS pump is from a much later 240/940

I think I would start from scratch tbh

[DQ81]

Originally Posted by classicswede

Its looking like a right mix and match

B200 engine
360 fuel system?
240 distributor and ignition module
B23ET/B230ET blow off valve but you said the turbo is a td04?
Intercooler looks to be a 940 with AC one
PAS pump is from a much later 240/940

I think I would start from scratch tbh

I said td04 but it's more likely a Garrett t3.

It's a mix n match all right so it seems. Does run well except for pinging though lol

I was thinking about a full lh2.4 harness off a b230fk.... Thoughts?