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Post-Rebuild B20 - Coolant Leak

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Old Jun 19th, 2019, 06:34   #11
gothamus
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I placed an order with VPD in Charleston for a new head gasket. The standard one for a B20e has the thickness I want for this. I think that’s 1mm. Replacing the head bolts too since the ones with the engine are old. Not bad but, hey, I’m going to do anything that might, possibly impact the results.

All the head gaskets I’ve seen for the B20 do not have matching shaped holes for the 2 front coolant pathway holes. On the engine these are sort of triangular in shape. I can see them before I put the thermostat in. They are round on the head gasket It covers a good portion of that opening. It must cut into how much liquid passes through. Do others know of what I speak? What’s up with that? I can post an image if I’m leaving you scratching your scholarly beards.
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Old Jun 19th, 2019, 13:13   #12
Derek UK
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As long as the gasket is the right way up, marked UP or TOP you're OK. This mismatch of hole sizes and shapes may even be deliberate to control the rate of flow. The important match is where the oil flows up from the block, through the head and into the central rocker arm mount. If this is blocked no oil gets up to lubricate the rockers. If the person who rebuilt this engine modified the holes in the gasket, it may be that coolant got routed into this oilway and that is why the neat coolant is getting into the rocker area. Check the gasket when you remove the head. Take a picture.
This picture shows the holes that feed the oil to the rockers. The black areas above and to the side are for coolant. There should be no route between them.
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Old Jun 28th, 2019, 18:38   #13
gothamus
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I've succeeded in running the engine and moving around the block a few times. Still some work to do, I've must do a lot more running in before I can say the job is completed, but there is a pretty good chance I'm going to be fully functional over the weekend.
I was able to take my head to Jesse at C.A.M.S in East Islip, Long Island. He is an excellent fellow. He has a workshop in what looks like an old barn next to his late-19th/early 20th century house. He also pointed me to some good Barbecue in E Islip. The head definitely needed grinding. He also ground the thermostat opening on the top. Too much pitting. The condition of the head required the work and he held little doubt this was the cause of my leaking.
Before installing the head I cleaned out the bores for the head bolts and the coolant pathways was well as I could without pulling the engine. Remember that I bought this engine as re-built. I was overly hopeful about how much work was done despite my finding the condition less than satisfactory. The only work I can see having been done was the bottom end cleaned, the pistons look to have been cleaned. Without pulling them I cannot verify the rings and all that I received receipts for were installed. The cylinders do not have a ridge. I spent a week doing the best I could cleaning coolant channels. I found rusty bits and a leaf. The machinist told me the bottom end of these engines are quite durable and can take much abuse. Too bad I won't be able to say or believe the job is a properly re-built engine. I'm wondering if I'll blow a ring in the next few days! I have a few weeks before our Berkshire getaway. Driving those country backroads in my Amazon made last summer one of my best trips in years. I really really really won't be happy if I'm driving a Nissan Altima up there. I will smile nonetheless. Compartmentalism! I can do it with the best of them!

I am reluctant to write this guys name here. I'll check with a legal advisor first. If I had some money left I would take him to court. I am sure he is going to do the same to others. He has an 1800, 242 and a 122. That he is into these cars, can talk the talk, name drop while actually not only committing fraud but moving cars along to their grave (an Amazon needing body work that isn't running? Might be better broken up for parts, right?) is all the worse. I didn't find a criminal record on him. But he was in a court case some decades ago. And deep searching found a post on a forum about his not delivering a yellow 242 to a buyer. Maybe the one I saw in his driveway? He was trying to get my old block off my hands. Now I assume to assemble for another unsuspecting soul.

Enough darkness. Thinking of purchasing or doing business with a mechanic claiming disability In New York State? Does he play Jazz music in NYC from time to time? Contact me for more information. I'm not talking about VPD. Enough of this now.
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Old Jun 28th, 2019, 19:32   #14
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Boy. A drive in the Berkshires. When is that? I might want to lay my eyes on a guy who rebuilt his engine on the side of the road in NYC.
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Old Jun 28th, 2019, 19:59   #15
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Here is the what and where I'm at. The head looks great now. I am posting some pictures of the holes I was writing about earlier. All the head gaskets I have seen are uniform in size and shape of openings. The 2 front waterways on the block are kind of triangular in shape. The gasket has round holes. When installed the holes are reduced to about half their size. This doesn't matter? I guess not if the original design took this into account.

The engine being a B20f, I asked VP Autoparts in Charleston SC about the correct gasket for the engine after a cleaning-up grinding. He said they have always used the B20e gasket in Sweden, doesn't see why it would be different in the U.S. But, you know, America. I don't think there is a difference in gasket for B20e or f. I think he was just calling it that.

I have some more adjusting/syncing on my carbs after having removed them and set them so many times. I have a little bit of dripping where the cover plate for the flywheel behind the sump pan. I have more oil than I usually would have, I'm at the top of the marker on the stick. I expected more oil to be pulled up into the filter. But I poured some into the filter before installing, so that may have been unnecessary. Still not over the high mark.
I am watching the coolant flow closely. It is cycling so the thermostat is working. Running hot, over the halfway point, then to the top of the gauge, which will drop back half way when thermostat cycles. But there has been little driving and more standing so far. The over flow is filling all the way up and then draining back down to almost empty. A few times it's overflowed out of the overflow bottle and to the ground. Not every time I notice the thermostat opening. But it's happened several times while running. It's quick. I turn my back a moment and then I'm looking to find where all the liquid came from. I know it is not leaking out of the hose because I finally saw it happen.

Next is to do some driving tests. I have done a gentle drive around the block a few times. Tonight I will do some more driving and increase load progressively. I'm following previously posted recommendations for running in. Before that I have to track down an incremental electrical short with the internal lights; adjust the clutch (the pedal is almost all the way up before the clutch disengages) and closer inspection of suspension and front arms.

More to come. I am sure I will have a question waiting to ask!
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File Type: jpg Front holes.jpg (119.6 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpeg Coolant holes.jpeg (265.9 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpeg Thermo hole.jpeg (245.7 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by gothamus; Jun 28th, 2019 at 20:20. Reason: grammer and mistakes
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Old Jun 28th, 2019, 20:32   #16
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blue- We'll be in the Berkshires the third week of July. Both weekends. In New Marlborough county about 15 minutes from Jacob's Pillow (I spend my week driving my lady to dance shows and classes, you can find me in a discreet corner of the parking lot).

All of those dirt farm roads, wonderful driving land and small hamlet's to discover. I really geek out on the history. Want to hear about post offices and the settling of those farm lands? You know you do, c'mon! Or we can poke around with an old Amazon, more fun. Ping me if you can make it there around then.

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Old Jun 28th, 2019, 22:03   #17
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My weekends are booked, but maybe mid week if the weather's nice and work load is under control.

Maybe I can try to get my car on the road by then. Just what we need - two possibly unreliable Volvos.

Looks like a little more than an hour north of me. Since I've owned it, my car has only run that far while on a trailer.
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Old Jun 28th, 2019, 23:42   #18
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Sounds as if things are getting back in line again. Re your coolant behaviour, it's not unusual to have to bleed a few times and it sounds as if you still have some air in the system. Bleed with the heater control lever on full hot. When all seems well have the level in the bottle between the level lines. The caps must be good and make good seals. Rad one is a full blocking type which doesn't blow off. Use for basic filling only, then hang the bottle from the hood hook and top it up from there. That will be the highest point for the coolant and you can run the engine up to temp like that if you like, to bubble out any air. Refit to the side of rad and adjust coolant level. Fit a good cap with 7 or 10psi rating. Level when hot should be about or a little above the high mark and about the low mark after cooling down. Not too critical but there must be a reasonable amount of volume above the coolant to take expansion into account. The increased pressure will lower the boiling point. When the engine and coolant are hot it will boil over if you take the cap off due to the reduced pressure. If you've ever done this you'll know how dangerous this is. A bad cap or one with the wrong reach won't hold the pressure and you also get a boil-over. A leaky cap or a distorted plastic bottle can cause an annoying boil over if you come to a halt in traffic after a fast run and the engine is really hot.
Hopefully, your caps are good, just making a point.
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Old Jun 29th, 2019, 01:24   #19
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Good advice on the cooling system. I’ll follow it. I went ahead and sprang for new caps when I bought the refurbished radiator from VP. It’s a small thing and I’m trying to have this car practical and reliable and away from too-often sudden pull-over inspections because of some sound or bad change. My wife is suspecting she may be the curse. I’ve taken a bunch of little trips out of town on my own with no big issues. With her i’ve had more driving problems crop up and, well, she may have a different reaction to another breakdown.

I may digress- I will share our road trip agreement. First trip out of town 3 years ago I was still getting to know this girl (the car) and something was going on to make me attentive and asking her to be quiet. I sensed her getting pretty anxious and that fed back onto me and back to her. I nipped it right there, “If we ever have a breakdown, and we very well may, you are one Uber and a train ride home, free of charge. So if something happens, sit back, play on your phone. It’s all my problem and if I’m worrying about you I may likely not fix it.” She heard it right there and the. and has never been a problem through many anxious miles and a difficult and dramatic breakdown. Good girl! Strike that- Great Woman! I think I’ll keep her.
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Old Jun 30th, 2019, 19:15   #20
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Yesterday was a very hot day here. 32c/90f + especially in the sun. I drove her about 10 blocks (I had left her in a spot last night that put her directly in the sun- Mistake!). By the time I had a shady spot to pull into the car had been running the top of the temp gauge for 2 or 3 minutes. The cooling system was cycling correctly and temperature dropped quickly after parking.

Toward early evening I went to start her and move to a better working spot. I got some misfiring sounds like sharp SNAPS! out the back. Eventually wouldn't start. I pulled the plugs and found them oil fouled and hardened black. The rear two most hard black the front 2 wet and dark tackiness. I swapped them out, but of course- too late for starting on a quiet street.

I also notice the head bolts outside the valve cover are wet, not soaking, with oil. In the rear of the head and mating surface there is wet oil. Not dripping, just wet to touch. Oil is clean and clear with no darkening. Under valve cover are the signs that oil is flowing up through the oil pathways.

I tightened down head bolts again and adjusted valve lashing. Blew a horn/brake fuse. Gotta find that short!

Cooler today and I am flushing the cooling system. I want to do this 3 times while running in and she has had at least an hour of running by now. I expect she will drive but watching temp and plugs.
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