No more diesel then

[Phil117]

Diesel's still have a very big place in the market IMO.

Far to many people buy them, or previous have done as usually benefited from cheap road tax. There is no need to have them if you only ever do local traffic and full electric is a very good alternative for this.

However, anyone who does decent mileage on long trips, petrols are still to far behind for me to look at buying. MPG just can't rival the diesel sat at 1500 RPM for miles on end.

[Fitzchiv]

I've been having this exact quandry myself, having considered the ramifications of Diesel getting less and less support. I currently have a D4 manual on order (cut off in 3 weeks) and whilst I wanted to keep list price under £40k to avoid upper tax band I'm starting to wonder about the future proofing nature of a T5 auto.

But with a 10mpg gap between the two my 8k miles a year doesn't give opportunity for the added value at the end of the PCP to cover added cost of fuel AND tax. Were looking at £1500 more tax over 5 years and about £2500 more in fuel.

Will a T5 be worth £4k more than a D4 in 5yr time? That's the question.

[Bernard F]

Originally Posted by Fitzchiv

I've been having this exact quandry myself, having considered the ramifications of Diesel getting less and less support. I currently have a D4 manual on order (cut off in 3 weeks) and whilst I wanted to keep list price under £40k to avoid upper tax band I'm starting to wonder about the future proofing nature of a T5 auto.

But with a 10mpg gap between the two my 8k miles a year doesn't give opportunity for the added value at the end of the PCP to cover added cost of fuel AND tax. Were looking at £1500 more tax over 5 years and about £2500 more in fuel.

Will a T5 be worth £4k more than a D4 in 5yr time? That's the question.

I doubt anyone can predict what any diesel car will be worth in five years time, possibly scrap value and certainly much less than you will get today for a five year old car. You also have to consider that the MOT emissions test will be even stricter than the new tests that have just started. Diesels are being driven off the road and if you only do 8000 miles is it even worth considering. So my answer to your question is that a T5 will probably be worth at least £4K more by virtue off the eventual death of all diesels. You could hedge your bets by taking a 2 or 3 year PCP only if you really want a diesel.

[Ringthane]

Well, I’m buying the car outright and I expect to keep it for at least the next five years. I would have gone for electric, but it’s just not viable unless I were to go with a model X and that was too rich for me. Hybrid, with a range of less than 50 miles seems a bit pointless (no disrespect to those that have it), as it’s just not mature enough. Ideally, I’d buy fuel cell, but that’s a long way off.

The demise of diesel, as you put it, disguises the fact that the trend is to move away from all ICE altogether, so that naturally means petroleum as well. To argue that diesel is going to die and leave petrol standing is not entirely accurate.

The furore about diesel does, IMHO, seem to be a UK centric thing, so the implication that my D4 will be worthless in five or 10 years time, might be wrong, who knows.

I have to take a leap of faith regarding the fuel. In the time I have it, would the D4 cost me less to run that the T5? So far, the consensus seems to say that it would.

[neon]

I do not envy anyone buying a new car at the moment.
My view for what it is worth is that self driving electric cars will be the future, just a question of how fast this will happen.
Diesels have had their day but again just a question of how fast this will happen, unless some miracle development happens on reducing harmful emissions. Petrol will follow the same route eventually, but probably not far behind.
I think the pace will quicken now on electric cars as car manufacturers and the government cannot afford the drop off in car sales. As the volume and range goes up on electric cars they will become more feasible price wise. Cannot understand how an electric car cannot be cheaper than a diesel or petrol one to manufacture.
But I may be reading it all wrong of course.

[Bernard F]

Originally Posted by Ringthane

Well, I’m buying the car outright and I expect to keep it for at least the next five years. I would have gone for electric, but it’s just not viable unless I were to go with a model X and that was too rich for me. Hybrid, with a range of less than 50 miles seems a bit pointless (no disrespect to those that have it), as it’s just not mature enough. Ideally, I’d buy fuel cell, but that’s a long way off.

The demise of diesel, as you put it, disguises the fact that the trend is to move away from all ICE altogether, so that naturally means petroleum as well. To argue that diesel is going to die and leave petrol standing is not entirely accurate.

The furore about diesel does, IMHO, seem to be a UK centric thing, so the implication that my D4 will be worthless in five or 10 years time, might be wrong, who knows.

I have to take a leap of faith regarding the fuel. In the time I have it, would the D4 cost me less to run that the T5? So far, the consensus seems to say that it would.

All ICE willl be gone by 2040 but diesel much sooner, it’s not only UK but all of Europe, it’s already dead in USA. The takeup of all electric will not happen until battery costs become much lower, have a larger range, and a full recharging infrastructure exists, fuel cell would be nice if ever, so that still leaves petrol or petrol hybrid to fill the gap. That’s my theory and why I changed from years of Diesel to petrol.

[Philip Fisher]

Originally Posted by Bernard F

I doubt anyone can predict what any diesel car will be worth in five years time, possibly scrap value and certainly much less than you will get today for a five year old car.

Get out of town!

Buy a Euro 6 diesel today and only be scrap in 5 years time? Come off it.

Let's just think what the government has actually said.

By 2040 all new cars will have to be a hybrid capable of at least 50 miles. Im pretty sure that is all they said.

So in 22 years time you wont be able to buy a pure diesel or petrol engine. But you will be allowed to buy one in 2039 and just like in the past you will be able to run it out for the duration of it's life.

Euro 6 replaced Euro 5 replaced Euro 4 etc... But Euro 1 cars are not banned from the road. They will just struggle a bit with pollution zones and access to cities.

This whole talk of diesel being dead is nonsense. In the long term Electric will naturally take over but this is entirely dependant on the battery technology. We need I reckon roughly a tripling of range and then the technology will be good enough for most people to buy it and this will drive the change.

Next year I plan on opting out of the company car scheme and replacing my T8 with a D5. I have absolutely no worries about doing so. A new Euro 6 Diesel will have plenty of life.

[nu11eaf]

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

@nu11eaf

That figure is not old hat at all, it is only in the last year or so that Manufactures are selling diesel's far cheaper, and doing better deals on them, and that is only to screw every possible pony out of something before it is banned. (that might be 10 years earlier too) Although PCP is an option but the residual prices are pretty poor as that is where the risk is.

And once again I stress my figures are based on everything not just MPG.

It is a bit of a gamble, and I agree if you are towing constantly, or large loads, so Vans although even VW had bought in a petrol transporter again.

it is easier to get more mpg from any style of driving in a diesel, but drive a petrol engine correctly even an AMG 380 BHP like mine I can still return up to 38.6 on a round trip driving at a reasonable pace faster than most traffic on the motorway, and just with general traffic on A / B Roads.

In the Real world most people only do like 12k miles a yr and a lot of that is just short journeys.

I again add, yes now they might be great for 1 or 2 even 3 years from new, it is when they are 10 years etc. if everyone who owned a diesel actually thrashed every now and again they would run a lot cleaner, same as the Government should subsidise V power or supreme diesel as that runs a lot cleaner too, inside of ripping us right off over cleaner fuel.

Oh dear why all the fuss over nothing, we make our choice to what suits us, I am happy I made the right choice for me, D5 diesel, I am not bothered by all the fuss over this issue, I have the latest diesel engine that complies to all the latest legislation and nothing will change while I own it, or nothing I am going to worry or be concerned about, Its older vehicles that will be effected more than any others.
I do about 5k miles a year in my XC90 and average ~26mpg, I look at it as money spent the same as if I had bought a new sofa not as any form of investment where I have to justify my mileage to own one.

[Bernard F]

Also diesel will be banned from all cities sooner than later

[MaDProFF]

Some countries are trying to bring the date down to 2030 no ICE

@Ringthane, not sure how you have calculated some of your figures, 8k miles, per year, only 10 mpg difference?

Have you factored Service Costs difference, Road Tax, & Growing difference in fuel costs, though last two will grow wider per year.

Personally you a petrol will cost you less, and that is not taking in depreciation.

If I was you Ringthane, and a personal car buy I would wait till next year they will be far more options for you.

@NU11eaf, I not got my knickers in a twist, I don't wear any, just facts, if it is right or wrong for diesel's makes no difference, they are on there way out like all ICE just petrol has a little longer to live.