Is Petrol cheaper to run than a Diesel ?

[grin factor]

Originally Posted by kebab10

Does it really matter? What sort of car do you enjoy driving? Get one that suits YOU. If it costs a little bit more to run, so what. Cant take it with you.

If its a T5, T4 or a diesel version then go for it.

Totally agree.
Lots of slagging off at the mo', and its not like the layby's are full of broken down diesels.

[Moosejaw]

Originally Posted by scr8pdo

Plus you cant do this with a petrol car


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvSng...ure=plpp_video

Yeah, that's impressive......
A correctly fuelled car won't ever do this though.

http://youtu.be/Fw2r_lIRgpY

There are lots of these "Diseasel turbo oil seal failure" vids on YouTube, but I like this one because you can actually hear the conrods popping through the block as the lump self-destructs.

Originally Posted by grin factor

....and its not like the layby's are full of broken down diesels.

Been to many scrapyards recently? You'd be surprised at the number of 2002/3/4 cars you'll find and most of them will be Dizzlers. One DMF/DPF/injector/turbo bill too many for the poor sods that bought them believing the 'OMG Diesel mpg' hype and got landed with a £1000+ bill on a car they'd just paid £1500 for.

[Prufrock]

Originally Posted by grin factor

Totally agree.
Lots of slagging off at the mo', and its not like the layby's are full of broken down diesels.

Sorry guys, as far as I am concerned there's no"slagging off", I thought we were all having a rational debate about the pro and cons of the matter.

Of course its all about choice, whatever you prefer is great, but that doesn't mean you're blind to the failing of whatever that choice that is.

None of my cars are perfect (including my 500E) and just because they're mine doesn't mean I try to pretend they are!

Prufrock.

[Palmer]

All depends what you prefer.

I myself have gone from petrol to diesel. Saving a fair chunk on fuel costs at the mo. Also it will be more powerful than my petrol by a fair amount

[scr8pdo]

Originally Posted by Moosejaw

Yeah, that's impressive......
A correctly fuelled car won't ever do this though.

http://youtu.be/Fw2r_lIRgpY

There are lots of these "Diseasel turbo oil seal failure" vids on YouTube, but I like this one because you can actually hear the conrods popping through the block as the lump self-destructs.




Been to many scrapyards recently? You'd be surprised at the number of 2002/3/4 cars you'll find and most of them will be Dizzlers. One DMF/DPF/injector/turbo bill too many for the poor sods that bought them believing the 'OMG Diesel mpg' hype and got landed with a £1000+ bill on a car they'd just paid £1500 for.

^^Thats a run away diesel, where it fuels itself through the breathers when they overheat, seen it many many times, it runs of its own lubricant

You are right about the later diesels going expensively wrong mind, give me an old pug XUD anyday I actually like the old non common rail diesels, bombproof old lumps, its when they started with the higher technology that stuff started to go wrong, but I must say that I have been impressed with power output of later diesels, tbh Iam more curious with diesels as they have advanced sooo much over such little time and when running right they are cheaper to run than a petrol without a doubt MPG wise but if you talk about repair costs etc etc depreciation, initial purchase price I cant see an advantage.

But lets say you needed to hire a car for a couple of months and there were no service costs involved, all you had to do was re fuel it, and you needed it for running about everywhere, only a fool would would pick a petrol car if performance wasnt an issue

[Moosejaw]

Originally Posted by scr8pdo

..give me an old pug XUD anyday I actually like the old non common rail diesels, bombproof old lumps, its when they started with the higher technology that stuff started to go wrong...

+1

I don't hate Diesels as such, rather it's the compromises forced on the manufacturers by the ever fickle buying pubic. We want petrol levels of refinement, so they developed the DMF (A spectacularly ingenious bit of kit, but total overkill on a road car), we want performance so they fit the sort of forced induction and fuelling systems that would produce 3-400bhp were the same level of technology applied to a petrol engine, and we also want 'green', hence the DPFs and the like.

Modern Diesels are just far too complicated for their own good, and a lot of non-enthusiast car buyers don't appreciate that fact. All they hear from the pub bores is "Diesels last 500k miles no bother, run 'em on chip fat, dead cheap, simple cars...." and then wonder why they go bang when they don't bother to service them.

Agree totally about the old PSA 1.9XUD engine. Utterly un-burstable, virtually un-stallable, a superb engine, so were the early VW/Audi Tdis. The trouble only started when they turned the wicks up so that they'd get the 130-160bhp from a 2 litre the market now demands, rather than being happy with the low-tech 70-90bhp that the older engines produced.
I'd be happy with a nice old Pug 405 or Audi 80 Diesel from the mid 80s, but there just aren't enough advantages any more.

[Daim]

I did all these calculations, when buying my C30. I wanted a 2.0l engine (was basically a demand) and I wanted a car cheap in all other maners, other than fuel.

I ended up buying a 2.0l nonturbo petrol with 145 hp instead of the 2.0l PSA turbo diesel with 136 hp. Of course, I am in a different country with different taxes and different offers, but here a little calculation:

Fuel:
Petrol (E5 with 95 ron): €1,60/liter
Diesel: €1,50/liter (and more, depending on when you buy it - sometimes it costs more than petrol)
Consumption costs via Volvo specs:
2.0l: 7.3x1,60 = €11,68/100 km
2.0d: 5.1x1.50 = €7,65/100 km

Roadtax:
2.0l: €135/year
2.0d: €308/year

Servicecosts:
2.0l:
20.000 km/12 month service: €230
60.000km/36 month service: €330
2.0d:
20.000 km/12 month service: €300
600.000 km/36 month service: €660 (additive is topped)
120.000 km/72 month service: €1300 (additive is topped and DPF is changed)

Insurance (30.000 km/year, anyone can drive, no self deductable sums):
2.0l: €120/quarter
2.0d: €180/quarter

Lets say, I keep my car 6 years...

Total distance driven:
6x30.000 km = 180.000 km

Total fuel costs (if non raising):
180.000/100 = 1800
2.0l: 1800 x 11,68 = €21.024
2.0d: 1800 x 7,65 = €13.770

Total road tax paid:
2.0l: €810
2.0d: €1848

Total costs of services:
2.0l: 6x 20.000, 3x 60.000 = 6x230 + 3x330 = €1710
2.0d: 6x 20.000, 2x 60.000, 1x 120.000 = 6x 300 + 2x 660 + 1x 1300 = €4420

Total costs of insurance over 6 years:
2.0l: 6 x 4 x 120 = €2.880
2.0d: 6 x 4 x 180 = €4.320

On top of that, there are other costs to keep in mind... Wheels, brakes, engine parts, exhausts, etc.

2.0l has 15" rims and brakes:
Tire: €55/piece
Brakes (front and rear Volvo): €500

2.0d has 16" rims and brakes (here in D):
Tire: €70/piece (same brand and tire type)
Brakes: (front and rear Volvo): €600

Other things are hard to calculate, as the engines can break. Thinking correctly, the 2.0l non turbo has nothing much, that can go wrong. Where as the 2.0d has a turbocharger, intercooler, glow plugs and injectors (which need regular changing), construction faults etc.

Coming back to the total costs:
2.0l incl. all possible costs:
Fuel: 21.024
Tax: 810
Insurance: 2.880
Service: 1.710
Tires: 220
Brakes: 500
Total: €27.144

2.0d incl. all possible costs:
Fuel: 13.770
Tax: 1.848
Insurance: 4.320
Service: 4.420
Tires: 280
Brakes: 600
Total: €25.238

The price difference in the end isn't really anything, as the buying price (via pricelist) for a 2.0d was €3.000 higher than an equal equipped 2.0l. So that difference has to be added to the total costs:

2.0l: €27.144 vs. 2.0d: €28.238

So the petrol is in a long term run the cheaper car HERE IN GERMANY. And that is only if nothing goes wrong!

[silestanix]

Thought I'd add my 2p; despite having had modern diesels before (4 to be precise), and enjoying the economy associated with diesels, I have once again gone Back to Petrol. Reasons were simply that modern Diesels just have far too many problems to be reliable. I paid out fortune after fortune to repair each of the diesels I had, whether the funds were for a turbo, egr related gubbins, injector problems, H.P.Fuel pump problems...the list is endless.

My previus car, A Vx Vectra 1.8 petrol on a 2004 plate was reliable as I px'd it in for my C70, reason to change car was because of my knee. I only ever paid out for normal wear and tear items such as brake pads, service items, cambelt, etc.

With my C70, I know it will be reliable from the word go, apart from the ETM + MAF and thankfully I now know what the signs are of one giving up so I will be prepared come ETM + MAF Death time. Bar those 2, usual servicing will be followed and she will prove a good car.

I have had only 1 reliable Diesel, and that is the one in my signature, an L-Reg Naturally Aspirated Peugeot 306 1.9D XUD9, which I've done over 50k in mine mid 2009 and hasn't missed a beat. No ECU + No EGR Nonsense + Pure mechanical workings = reliable + economical diesel.

[Rossi-fan]

Originally Posted by Daim

I did all these calculations, when buying my C30. I wanted a 2.0l engine (was basically a demand) and I wanted a car cheap in all other maners, other than fuel.

I ended up buying a 2.0l nonturbo petrol with 145 hp instead of the 2.0l PSA turbo diesel with 136 hp. Of course, I am in a different country with different taxes and different offers, but here a little calculation:

Fuel:
Petrol (E5 with 95 ron): €1,60/liter
Diesel: €1,50/liter (and more, depending on when you buy it - sometimes it costs more than petrol)
Consumption costs via Volvo specs:
2.0l: 7.3x1,60 = €11,68/100 km
2.0d: 5.1x1.50 = €7,65/100 km

Roadtax:
2.0l: €135/year
2.0d: €308/year

Servicecosts:
2.0l:
20.000 km/12 month service: €230
60.000km/36 month service: €330
2.0d:
20.000 km/12 month service: €300
600.000 km/36 month service: €660 (additive is topped)
120.000 km/72 month service: €1300 (additive is topped and DPF is changed)

Insurance (30.000 km/year, anyone can drive, no self deductable sums):
2.0l: €120/quarter
2.0d: €180/quarter

Lets say, I keep my car 6 years...

Total distance driven:
6x30.000 km = 180.000 km

Total fuel costs (if non raising):
180.000/100 = 1800
2.0l: 1800 x 11,68 = €21.024
2.0d: 1800 x 7,65 = €13.770

Total road tax paid:
2.0l: €810
2.0d: €1848

Total costs of services:
2.0l: 6x 20.000, 3x 60.000 = 6x230 + 3x330 = €1710
2.0d: 6x 20.000, 2x 60.000, 1x 120.000 = 6x 300 + 2x 660 + 1x 1300 = €4420

Total costs of insurance over 6 years:
2.0l: 6 x 4 x 120 = €2.880
2.0d: 6 x 4 x 180 = €4.320

On top of that, there are other costs to keep in mind... Wheels, brakes, engine parts, exhausts, etc.

2.0l has 15" rims and brakes:
Tire: €55/piece
Brakes (front and rear Volvo): €500

2.0d has 16" rims and brakes (here in D):
Tire: €70/piece (same brand and tire type)
Brakes: (front and rear Volvo): €600

Other things are hard to calculate, as the engines can break. Thinking correctly, the 2.0l non turbo has nothing much, that can go wrong. Where as the 2.0d has a turbocharger, intercooler, glow plugs and injectors (which need regular changing), construction faults etc.

Coming back to the total costs:
2.0l incl. all possible costs:
Fuel: 21.024
Tax: 810
Insurance: 2.880
Service: 1.710
Tires: 220
Brakes: 500
Total: €27.144

2.0d incl. all possible costs:
Fuel: 13.770
Tax: 1.848
Insurance: 4.320
Service: 4.420
Tires: 280
Brakes: 600
Total: €25.238

The price difference in the end isn't really anything, as the buying price (via pricelist) for a 2.0d was €3.000 higher than an equal equipped 2.0l. So that difference has to be added to the total costs:

2.0l: €27.144 vs. 2.0d: €28.238

So the petrol is in a long term run the cheaper car HERE IN GERMANY. And that is only if nothing goes wrong!

Wow,,,Thats sounds more expensive than in the UK. Are you saying you pay your insurance every 3 months, ie; every quarter as you put it?

[Daim]

Originally Posted by Rossi-fan

Wow,,,Thats sounds more expensive than in the UK. Are you saying you pay your insurance every 3 months, ie; every quarter as you put it?

Yep. It is easier to pay in four lumps than in one