Anti-diesel hysteria - should I go for T8 instead?

[MaDProFF]

Depends on how much loss in degradation that is acceptable for a warranty claim.
I thought it was about 70% if batteries fall below 70% they are covered

Thing is there are a few cars now near 10 years old out there, and a lot of Tesla's, and so far in general it is looking pretty good.

Also in 8 yrs time there will be a demand for 2nd hand batteries to put in power packs for home charging.

In 8 years time the cost of batteries will have come down significantly, and there is a high possibility that you will be able to replace old batteries with new design at a far less cost.

Technology is moving very fast with in the battery world

[anotherv60]

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

Depends on how much loss in degradation that is acceptable for a warranty claim.
I thought it was about 70% if batteries fall below 70% they are covered

Thing is there are a few cars now near 10 years old out there, and a lot of Tesla's, and so far in general it is looking pretty good.

I am concerned with how they define 70% - if you cannot physically measure the basis for battery capacity how can you define it? Sure they can give you a number on your dash board, but if that doesn't have a physical meaning then how can you be covered in a warranty claim?

The range in your vehicle varies depending upon driving conditions - that is not directly related to your battery capacity, so if its 70% of the range prediction, that gives a lot of wiggle room! XC90 range is 20 miles on NEDC?

I'm not anti-EV/ hybrid just so you know :-)

The lithium ion battery is 38 years old. It is just that it is being used in a vehicle that makes it "new technology". Tesla haven't been around for 10 years yet, Model S started production in 2012, but only really ramped up in 2015, still less than a months worth of VW golf production on the road so the numbers of vehicles getting to high milage / age are very low like you say.

[Haldex]

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

Technology is moving very fast with in the battery world

I will argue strongly that it hasn’t moved an inch since the first serial-production hybrids have been introduced. Twenty-one years ago first Prius hit the roads- featuring Lithium-Ion battery packs- just like today’s hybrids and PHEVs. No movement whatsoever. What kind of earth-shaking discovery you expect in the next 8 years?

[Lexman8]

Originally Posted by Haldex

Twenty-one years ago first Prius hit the roads- featuring Lithium-Ion battery packs- just like today’s hybrids and PHEVs.

Not true. Most Prius use nickel-metal hydride batteries. The exception is the plug-in Prius which was introduced much later.

[Haldex]

Umm.. not true. Current hybrid actually has NiMh AND Li Ion whereas PHV is purely Li Ion. Previous generation same. First gen was NiMh only at the beginning (but many owners upgraded to aftermarket Li Ion for better performance..) but introduced Li Ion when they went global.

Point being- both Li Ion and NiMh are technologies my grandma had in her remote control about the time I was born.

If anything changed over this time - the raw materials for both have became scarce and the price skyrocketed..

Makes me wonder- in France, for example, EVs comprise about 1.2% of total number of cars- so currently they are on the level of statistical error. If 20, or 30% of drivers opted to replace ICE vehicles for EVs- what would happen with the price of electricity? Could the existing powerplants/infrastructure cope with such an increase in demand?..

[MOzS90]

I did a lot of research into this as I had a deposit of a Tesla Model S early this year. I didn’t buy it and took my deposit back for a whole heap of reasons.

Expect a 1-2% reduction in capacity every year.

If a battery provides 100 miles of range it will max at 80-90 miles of range 5-10 years later.

[MaDProFF]

Originally Posted by Haldex

I will argue strongly that it hasn’t moved an inch since the first serial-production hybrids have been introduced. Twenty-one years ago first Prius hit the roads- featuring Lithium-Ion battery packs- just like today’s hybrids and PHEVs. No movement whatsoever. What kind of earth-shaking discovery you expect in the next 8 years?

Solid state battery's getting closer
Grabat cells seem interesting
3D Foam Batteries
Dyson A lithium-ion battery that stores twice as much energy is a step closer to commercialisation thanks to a deal with the U.K. home appliance company Dyson.
Dyson are releasing an electric car in the next few years.
There are quite a few others out there now, all desperate to get something out.

Something else to bear in mind, that most of the original technology that may have been out for many years has been improved greatly with new technology, and even Lithium has a long way to go for improvement in the next 8 years to make lighter, more cycles, higher capacity, and more power, before the end of its life.

[Lexman8]

Originally Posted by Haldex

Point being- both Li Ion and NiMh are technologies my grandma had in her remote control about the time I was born.

The internal combustion engine has been around for over a hundred years but has seen huge improvements over that time. Batteries have also improved and will continue to do so.

If anything changed over this time - the raw materials for both have became scarce and the price skyrocketed..

The price of some raw materials has increased but the cost of the batteries themselves has fallen significantly and this trend will continue.

[Haldex]

Yeah, many are "getting closer", news of "amazing breakthroughs", the "battery that will change it all" are everywhere- but my iPhone X still gets about a day on a single charge- same as my original iPhone from 11 yrs ago..

Unfortunately, because of the EV lobby-induced pipe dream- some truly viable solutions- such as hydrogen fuel cell- or even LPG (with some improvements..) - don't stand a chance..

[SpaceBoy42]

Well regardless of all the technical details about batteries, MPG etc, for me I love my T8. Nobody NEEDS a Volvo T8 XC90 in inscription spec with B&W etc, but you buy all this because of the experience. A luxury experience. And for me, wafting around town and doing short journeys on Electric with no stop/start jolting around in extreme comfort after a preconditioned start to your journey is where it is at with decent MPG thrown in. And no, after having a T8, I won't be going back to Diesel in a hurry.

As MaDProFF says, it's all about how you drive it and enjoy the experience. The T8 is not really the right car for someone who will never charge it and only got the car for business/BIK/tax reasons doing long daily journeys.