General: - Help!! have I bought a lemon?!?

PaulieOfArrod · Nov 13th, 2013, 01:04

Hi All.
Been driving 20 years. Just bought my first volvo, today. an S60 2.4 t s auto. Seemed fine on the test drive. After I picked it up though..transmission problem...

After slowing down and then when the engine and transmission has / should have gone down through the gears, and when it is then "picking up" the weight of the car again, there is a pretty serious jolt and shock. It is very intermittent, but when it happens it is severe. I think I can possibly avoid it most or all of the time if I manually go down the gears while decellerating. However, after I stopped at one point and then just set off from standing it did it then too...

It has been sold by a garage on "trade terms" although I'm still sure they can't sell to joe public something that's not of merchantable quality.

I only know the very basic mechanical features of a car. haven't played about with one for many years. Been driving BMW's for 10 years. Aside from this issue I'm extremely impressed with the Volvo. It's more comfortable on the motorway than the modern 325 the wife usually uses.

There is one other issue:water, condensation and mold in the boot, particularly centering about the nearside rear light cluster area. I couldn't see any gaping rusty hole (body work is very good, especially for the age), so reckoned it might have been from valeting and being then left standing. But if anyone has any knowledge on that, that would be great too.

Gearbox is the main fear / concern though of course.. It's a 2001 car with 90k miles on the clock and pretty good regular service history, most of it main dealer until past 60k.

If this is a terminal problem with the gearbox I need to probably think of my next move quick regarding the garage and maybe trading standards...

Thanks!!

Paul

foggyjames · Nov 13th, 2013, 03:32

You're right..."trade terms" isn't worth the paper it's written on.

If you need to start looking at it yourself, inspect the fluid level and condition (burnt smell? colour?).

cheers

James

stephenevans99 · Nov 13th, 2013, 07:26

P2 autos are renowned to be troublesome. Check the fluid on the dipstick as mentioned - but also check the gearbox mount underneath to see if it's 'intact'.

RM955I · Nov 13th, 2013, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephenevans99

P2 autos are renowned to be troublesome. Check the fluid on the dipstick as mentioned - but also check the gearbox mount underneath to see if it's 'intact'.

It's lack of proper maintenance that is troublesome, not the gearbox.

I wouldn't waste time on the car - a trader can't absolve himself of his responsibilities just by passing a sale as a trade sale: it won stand up. Take the car back now for a refund failing which tell him you're going to. CAB and Trading Standards.

Once the auto starts to play up you could ends up chucking more than the car is worth in trying to fix it

egg_on_toast · Nov 13th, 2013, 08:55

It doesn't matter what the dealer sells the car under, he is still responsible for selling a roadworthy car without mechanical defects, unless he has highlighted them to you before purchasing. Just take the car back to them and get them to sort it.

TBH though it does just sound like low or spent fluid, might be worth checking the fluid colour/level before you go to the dealer so you have all the facts. Condensation/water in the boot is probably a seal around the light leaking and letting water in.

Brendan W · Nov 13th, 2013, 10:12

Yes and yes again. It's most likely that they were aware of the problem.

PaulieOfArrod · Nov 13th, 2013, 10:56

thanks all. I'm pretty mechanically illiterate, and have no ramps or jack. I have no haynes manual either. So I'm hesitant to try checking / addressing things myself, unless it is going to be dead dead easy.

I've been onto CAB. They confimed that "trade terms" isn't likely to stick as I'm not a trader. They said it may come down to whether the fault was "reasonable" given the age and miles - and an engineer's report might be needed for this.

They say I need to contact the dealer, by phone then in writing, to inform them of the issue and ask for a remedy. If I seek a refund then the onus would be on me (in court) to prove the fault and that it wasn't reasonable. If I seek repair or replacement the onus is on them to prove that there was no fault or that the fault was reasonable.

I explained that I was thinking of going to an independent gearbox specialist first to get an idea of the problem, to reduce the chance of getting messed about by the garage providing a solution that isn't really a solution (gaffa tape and superglue).

He encouraged me to contact the garage first. He noted that as it is a gearbox problem it could be expensive just to find out what the problem is..

I guess I need to get on the blower to them...

PaulieOfArrod · Nov 13th, 2013, 11:09

Just spoke to

Local gearbox specialist. They say it is computerised even at this age and they can read whatever faults come up. They can also pressure test it, as they say it might be a pressure problem not a problem with the box itself (?????), and they can do that for £60 and fit me in on Friday.

Selling garage. Left a message and the relevant guy is going to call me back.

Did I mention, the car has done about 90k?...and I paid £1500, thinking I would get a workhorse that would go to the moon and back with maybe just a new battery. I know it is old and a fair bit of mileage and not a lot of money to spend on a car, but I don't think this fault is "reasonable", and they shouldn't be selling a car with a fault like this to Joe Public full stop. They are obviously trying to come accross as a quality dealer, most of their stock is much newer than this, and they run adverts on local radio. You'd think if they are trying to occupy that sort of space as a business, they shouldn't / wouldn't sell a car with a pretty major / potentially expensive issue like this..

Brendan W · Nov 13th, 2013, 11:13

I wouldn't have any work done by a third party. That will allow the seller to walk away and why should you be running around to fix their problem.

PaulieOfArrod · Nov 13th, 2013, 11:24

I should mention that I am 86 miles and 1.30 hrs away from the dealer. For me to take it back (especially more than once) is going to be quite a bit of hassle for me.

Also, regarding maintenance / lack of maintenance, it has 10 main dealer service stamps, going up to 75,000 miles. The last three are from independents.

Nov 13th, 2013, 01:04	#1
PaulieOfArrod Junior Member Last Online: Dec 15th, 2013 22:35 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Sidmouth	Help!! have I bought a lemon?!? Hi All. Been driving 20 years. Just bought my first volvo, today. an S60 2.4 t s auto. Seemed fine on the test drive. After I picked it up though..transmission problem... After slowing down and then when the engine and transmission has / should have gone down through the gears, and when it is then "picking up" the weight of the car again, there is a pretty serious jolt and shock. It is very intermittent, but when it happens it is severe. I think I can possibly avoid it most or all of the time if I manually go down the gears while decellerating. However, after I stopped at one point and then just set off from standing it did it then too... It has been sold by a garage on "trade terms" although I'm still sure they can't sell to joe public something that's not of merchantable quality. I only know the very basic mechanical features of a car. haven't played about with one for many years. Been driving BMW's for 10 years. Aside from this issue I'm extremely impressed with the Volvo. It's more comfortable on the motorway than the modern 325 the wife usually uses. There is one other issue:water, condensation and mold in the boot, particularly centering about the nearside rear light cluster area. I couldn't see any gaping rusty hole (body work is very good, especially for the age), so reckoned it might have been from valeting and being then left standing. But if anyone has any knowledge on that, that would be great too. Gearbox is the main fear / concern though of course.. It's a 2001 car with 90k miles on the clock and pretty good regular service history, most of it main dealer until past 60k. If this is a terminal problem with the gearbox I need to probably think of my next move quick regarding the garage and maybe trading standards... Thanks!! Paul Last edited by PaulieOfArrod; Nov 13th, 2013 at 01:06. Reason: typos

Nov 13th, 2013, 03:32	#2
foggyjames 300 Register Keeper Last Online: Apr 24th, 2024 09:13 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nottingham	You're right..."trade terms" isn't worth the paper it's written on. If you need to start looking at it yourself, inspect the fluid level and condition (burnt smell? colour?). cheers James __________________ VOC 300-series Register Keeper '13 V70 D4 SE Lux '89 740 Turbo Intercooler '88 360 Turbo Intercooler '84 360 GLT '81 343 GLS R-Sport '79 343 DL '70 164

Nov 13th, 2013, 07:26	#3
stephenevans99 Team TorqueVolvo Last Online: Apr 24th, 2024 18:34 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: The Magnificent North	P2 autos are renowned to be troublesome. Check the fluid on the dipstick as mentioned - but also check the gearbox mount underneath to see if it's 'intact'.

Nov 13th, 2013, 08:55	#5
egg_on_toast Junior Member Last Online: Jan 20th, 2014 12:06 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Buckinghamshire	It doesn't matter what the dealer sells the car under, he is still responsible for selling a roadworthy car without mechanical defects, unless he has highlighted them to you before purchasing. Just take the car back to them and get them to sort it. TBH though it does just sound like low or spent fluid, might be worth checking the fluid colour/level before you go to the dealer so you have all the facts. Condensation/water in the boot is probably a seal around the light leaking and letting water in.

Nov 13th, 2013, 10:12	#6
Brendan W Premier Member Last Online: Apr 2nd, 2024 19:50 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Wexford	Yes and yes again. It's most likely that they were aware of the problem.

Nov 13th, 2013, 10:56	#7
PaulieOfArrod Junior Member Last Online: Dec 15th, 2013 22:35 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Sidmouth	thanks all. I'm pretty mechanically illiterate, and have no ramps or jack. I have no haynes manual either. So I'm hesitant to try checking / addressing things myself, unless it is going to be dead dead easy. I've been onto CAB. They confimed that "trade terms" isn't likely to stick as I'm not a trader. They said it may come down to whether the fault was "reasonable" given the age and miles - and an engineer's report might be needed for this. They say I need to contact the dealer, by phone then in writing, to inform them of the issue and ask for a remedy. If I seek a refund then the onus would be on me (in court) to prove the fault and that it wasn't reasonable. If I seek repair or replacement the onus is on them to prove that there was no fault or that the fault was reasonable. I explained that I was thinking of going to an independent gearbox specialist first to get an idea of the problem, to reduce the chance of getting messed about by the garage providing a solution that isn't really a solution (gaffa tape and superglue). He encouraged me to contact the garage first. He noted that as it is a gearbox problem it could be expensive just to find out what the problem is.. I guess I need to get on the blower to them...

Nov 13th, 2013, 11:09	#8
PaulieOfArrod Junior Member Last Online: Dec 15th, 2013 22:35 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Sidmouth	Just spoke to Local gearbox specialist. They say it is computerised even at this age and they can read whatever faults come up. They can also pressure test it, as they say it might be a pressure problem not a problem with the box itself (?????), and they can do that for £60 and fit me in on Friday. Selling garage. Left a message and the relevant guy is going to call me back. Did I mention, the car has done about 90k?...and I paid £1500, thinking I would get a workhorse that would go to the moon and back with maybe just a new battery. I know it is old and a fair bit of mileage and not a lot of money to spend on a car, but I don't think this fault is "reasonable", and they shouldn't be selling a car with a fault like this to Joe Public full stop. They are obviously trying to come accross as a quality dealer, most of their stock is much newer than this, and they run adverts on local radio. You'd think if they are trying to occupy that sort of space as a business, they shouldn't / wouldn't sell a car with a pretty major / potentially expensive issue like this..

Nov 13th, 2013, 11:13	#9
Brendan W Premier Member Last Online: Apr 2nd, 2024 19:50 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Wexford	I wouldn't have any work done by a third party. That will allow the seller to walk away and why should you be running around to fix their problem.

Nov 13th, 2013, 11:24	#10
PaulieOfArrod Junior Member Last Online: Dec 15th, 2013 22:35 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Sidmouth	I should mention that I am 86 miles and 1.30 hrs away from the dealer. For me to take it back (especially more than once) is going to be quite a bit of hassle for me. Also, regarding maintenance / lack of maintenance, it has 10 main dealer service stamps, going up to 75,000 miles. The last three are from independents.

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